talk guidelines for "threads like this "

[peridito]

Hi ,deleted thread on 26/11/ by Neonomore .

What are the guidelines that this transgressed ?

Was there an assumption that the OP was discussing suicide . What was the thread "like" in your view ?

I've looked at talk guidelines but it hasn't helped .

TIA
I thought it was someone having a MH crisis .

[Somethingsometime]

I would like to know this too.

A few of us were encouraging the op to get help for her mental health crisis but it didn’t seem to be a thread about suicide unless it has moved on in the short time after I last posted then it was deleted?

It seems harsh to pull it when she was so distressed.....

[peridito]

It wasn't about suicide ( I'm only guessing that the perception that it was about suicide was the reason for deletion )it was about someone having a psychotic episode that they were desperate to control and in doing so were taking -probably too many - of the prescription drugs they had ,including diazepam .

She had had difficulty accessing help and was waiting for a return call .
She said that the kindness from posters was the only kind thing ,or words to that effect .

@neonomore I hope you got help and that you are or will soon be feeling better .

[Sparklingbrook]

I didn't see the thread but it sounds like they needed RL help.

[Alrighteo]

@neonomore I hope you're safely tucked up in a hospital bed with nothing untoward happening in your imagination. I'm sorry that your thread was pulled for no reason when you really needed encouragement to go to A&E. I'm thinking of you. x I hope you made it to hospital.

[peridito]

She did but she was needing a lot of encouragement - she had a review on Friday but we were urging her to get help immediately .

She had been to A&E but by the sound of it she had fled after a wait .She was terrified of being sectioned and anxious to go to work .

She went to her GP surgery but her GP was not there and she was told to go back to A&E but she said she found A&E overwhelming .

She was clearly becoming more unwell as the thread progressed but she said she had phoned 111 and ,I think ,999 and was waiting for return calls .

I'm sure there are factors we are unaware of that might give something of an explanation about how she seemed to be slipping through the cracks, but she did seem let down by those she'd turned to for help . She seemed grateful for the help she was getting from posters and I think posts were helping her accept that she needed treatment .

I feel so sorry for her .

[MichaelMumsnet]

Hi @peridito
We took down that thread for safeguarding reasons.
We follow community best practice as set out by the Samaritans and other organisations.
We're in touch with the OP off the boards.

[peridito]

Hi ,I'm so glad to hear that you're in touch with the OP .

I don't really understand about taking it down for safeguarding reasons

Safeguarding means protecting the health, wellbeing and human rights of adults at risk, enabling them to live safely, free from abuse and neglect

maybe concern that she may give her name and address ?

What do Samaritans et al recommend as best practice - is there a link or could you explain ?.

[Somethingsometime]

I don’t understand how it was a safeguarding issue either.

Op hadn’t given away personal details, the thread was a supportive place for her to get the encouragement she obviously needed.

[peridito]

I wonder if it's something to do with a v vunerable person leaning too heavily on support from strangers/non professionals and this ( nonwithstanding the many well intentioned pleas that the OP go to A&E ) somehow inhibiting the action to get outside help ?

If that makes sense .

I guess the thread could confuse the issue - some saying 999 ,some 111 ,some A&E .Some still suggesting stuff about the black eye . Who knows how someone in extremis would find all that .

But ,I do think MN should offer more of an explanation when deleting .It would inform how posters respond in future .

[peridito]

@MichaelMumsnet if it was felt that the OP was too vunerable to be on a public forum could MN not have said so and ,most importantly ,stated that MN was in touch with her off the board ?

[Somethingsometime]

I agree peridito I think we all would have preferred her to get professional support and I can see how posters trying to help could confuse the issue.

I just hope she’s ok and has some professional support in place now. It was a difficult thread to be part of and the deletion message didn’t really help- a clearer explanation would have been better.

[peridito]

@Somethingsometime do you remember the name of the poster who picked up on the OP's post about taking all her diazepam ? Was it you ?

I would like her to know that MN are in touch with Neonomore . I bet a number of us had a bad night thinking about her !

[TabbyStar]

I think some of us had started to be worried that she'd accidentally taken too much of something (I'm guessing from what other people had said and my own thoughts), she was quite coherent to begin with but got less so. It was incredibly abrupt when it went, which was quite upsetting. It would have been helpful to know if MN have a process to contact OPs in this situation as it was quite distressing after we'd engaged with her for a while. I can understand why MN would pull threads, but a clearer message that the OP will be contacted would have made me feel better.

[Somethingsometime]

No peridito it wasn’t me.

I know it’s “just” an annonymous Internet forum but her distress was so real, it’s hard to switch off from that. I’d really like to know she is receiving care now.

[TabbyStar]

Was it Ariadne or a name like that? She had a good grip on the drug situation.

[peridito]

Thanks Tabby and Something .I know who you mean Tabby .I think it was someone else , a longer name .

I remember looking for Adriane ( something like that ) but she'd left the thread earlier .I think .I have such a bad memory for this sort of thing .

I hope Neo is doing ok ,how dreadful it must be for people going through such stuff .

[Alrighteo]

Given the @'s to the OP and her lack of response, I'm HOPING, in my heart of hearts, that the OP got to A&E last night.
I strongly disagree with the Samaritans advice and MNHQ stance on this poster.
If ever a poster needed some help, it was this poster.

Can I just say that the Samaritans is a listening service, not a talking service. Frequently, you ring up and they don't say anything at all in response to whatever you say!

Whoever gave MNHQ the advice that they are the people to listen to - how about you actually pay some of your £££s to engage a psychiatrist and for them to advise on what posters may or my not do.

Not a voluntary organisation.

[peridito]

Alrighteo do we know what the Samaratin's advice is ?Or what MN's stance - other than Safeguarding and need to delete - is ?

I'm guessing MN will regard my question as answered and we'll hear no more .

THough I'm really not clear about the ref to safeguarding .And it would be lovely to have my post at 15.48 acknowledged or taken onboard even.

[Alrighteo]

Their advice is to refer posters to them and to delete posts.

[Alrighteo]

HQ have posted about this before where posters were annoyed that HQ deleted a thread.
Thing is, we don't know how this turns out.
Might be that the OP is engaging with HQ, might be (most likely), that HQ emailed her a message which she hasn't picked up...... and told her to call the bloomin Samaritans!

[iklboo]

I was (am) really worried about that poster. I really hope she's alright and got the help and support she needs.

[MidnightMystery]

I'm glad I've seen this post I've been thinking about her a lot! I hope she's ok

[peridito]

Mmmm ,well ,I've just read this guide from the National Suicide Prevention Alliance
www.nspa.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/NSPA-Guidelines-Responding-to-Suicidal-Content-Online.pdf
which gives advice on deleting posts and what to do in an emergency ( which I imagine MN recognised this was ) . It does stress that deleting may remove a valuable response .

The doc mentions several times the importance of moderators to let the community know what's going on without breaking confidentiality .
Personally I feel that MN should add something to the Talk guidelines to explain that if they delete a post in these circumstances ( urgent concerns for posters safety etc ) that they give the OP clear reasons in an empathetic way and try to communicate with the person "behind the scene" ..

[peridito]

The guidelines above suggest that someone at risk should be told to seek professional advice by ringing 111 ,calling GP for emergency out of hours appointment ,calling 999 or going to A&E .

[Somethingsometime]

All of which we did peridito thanks for that, very interesting.

It felt like there was real progress being made on the thread with neonomore gradually accepting she needed more help. I’m just worried by pulling the thread she will have lost that although I am hopeful she’ll be in the right place now 🤞