You can’t be anti-DV and leave this victim-blaming bilge up MNHQ

[TottieandMarchpane]

You’re not really taking the line that this is “in the spirit”?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3715190-To-think-many-women-shouldve-thought-more-carefully-about-who-to-procreate-with?pg=2&order=

[TottieandMarchpane]

Clicky link (hopefully);

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3715190-To-think-many-women-shouldve-thought-more-carefully-about-who-to-procreate-with?pg=2&order=

[Singlenotsingle]

It's quite right, and I include myself in that.

[TottieandMarchpane]

I don’t know what that means @Singlenotsingle

[TottieandMarchpane]

What’s quite right?

Any of the DV charities will tell you that pregnancy or childbirth is often a trigger for men to start behaving abusively.

So how does a sweeping attitude that women are responsible for men’s behaviour do anything but excuse men?

[TottieandMarchpane]

www.nhs.uk/conditions/pregnancy-and-baby/domestic-abuse-pregnant/

[Josette77]

But the OP clearly wasn't talking about men who changed after pregnancy?

[Quaffy]

I’ve read that thread and while I disagree with the OP, I don’t read it as being victim blaming of DV victims.

[thisisfuckingbad]

I found it a really offensive, ignorant and misogynistic thread which showed now understanding of the complexity of coersive control and abuse. i think that reading something like that could well make someone seeking support to leave a bad or even dangerous relationship could end up feeling responsible and guilty for their difficult situation. Horrible!

[TottieandMarchpane]

The OP was;

Most of what you see on Mumsnet is women moaning and groaning about the ignorant/ selfish/ lazy/ entitled men they've chosen to father their children. Most of these oafs really do sound awful HOWEVER, AIBU in thinking that women need to be more careful about who they're choosing to father their children? Unless all of these fathers have had a personality transplant at the point of conception, women really do need to take some responsibility for bringing their DCs into such an unfair situation.

She certainly seems very sceptical and sneery about the idea that men reveal their abusive side during pregnancy.

Maybe you’re reading a different thread @Josette77 ?

[TottieandMarchpane]

P, I don’t read it as being victim blaming of DV victims.

It’s blaming lots of women for the behaviour of their unpleasant men, including women who experience DV.

[Fizzypoo]

I am a feminist. I am not misogynistic and I centre women. Women can and should take responsibility for their individual actions. Women are not helpless creatures and the thread was not victim blaming victims of DV. Women cannot blame every bad decision they have made on a man. There may be reasons why they chose the the poor decisions they made (I made them too) but part of being a grownup is taking personal responsibility for your actions, owning those decisions and trying your best to remedy them.

[Quaffy]

1. The OP mentions the men she means -selfish, lazy, entitled. Not abusive.
   
2. It’s not blaming them for that behaviour. The behaviour exists because of the man. The comment on the woman is the choice to have a child with a man who through no one’s fault but his own is lazy, selfish and entitled.
   

I’ve already said I disagree with the post but I interpret it differently to you I’m afraid.

Guess it’s up to MNHQ, it’s their view that matters.

[TottieandMarchpane]

I am not misogynistic and I centre women. Women can and should take responsibility for their individual actions. Women are not helpless creatures and the thread was not victim blaming victims of DV. Women cannot blame every bad decision they have made on a man. There may be reasons why they chose the the poor decisions they made (I made them too) but part of being a grownup is taking personal responsibility for your actions,

And yet, when women who - arguably - really should know better transfer their life savings into an unknown account because a voice on the phone tells them to, there’s apparently much more compassion and a widespread acceptance on MN that anyone can be deceived.

Anyone CAN be deceived by someone who sets out to deceive, which accounts for most poor choices of mate.

Let’s have a bit more compassion, eh?

[highwindowsbluesky]

I agree with fizzy and I am speaking with compassion, but even if I wasn’t, there’s nothing in the TGs about ‘must be compassionate’.

[TottieandMarchpane]

There’s a bit about existing “to make other parents easier” (and another bit about “not in the spirit” of the site.)

[TottieandMarchpane]

Making other parents’ LIVES easier.^^

(Probably not the exact wording but look it up if you’re interested.)

[Fizzypoo]

I think, that over supporting someone can be quite disempoweing and can slip into discrimination. Ie if I was extra nice to a disabled person and did things for them they could do themselves I wouldn't be treating them fairly.

The same as if I didn't accept women can be capable of knowingly making the wrong decisions. Women are not babies, women are all different and not a helpless mass of half the population.

[Teacakeandalatte]

Taat report it if you have a problem

[TottieandMarchpane]

TAAT? This is Site Stuff, you numpty!

[highwindowsbluesky]

I would agree with taking it down if an individual was asking for support tottie, it would 100% be the right call then. But that’s not the case.

[RolytheRhino]

I dunno. The OP is clearly not talking about abuse, just about shiftless men in general. Sometimes I do read posts by people who have tried to conceive after a year or so together and it hasn't worked out- many seem to rush into it. When I read those posts I do think they've not put sufficient thought into the magnitude of their decision to create a life. In those scenarios, I feel most sorry for the child.

[TottieandMarchpane]

I think, that over supporting someone can be quite disempoweing and can slip into discrimination. Ie if I was extra nice to a disabled person and did things for them they could do themselves I wouldn't be treating them fairly.

All I’m asking for is the equivalent of not slagging off the disabled person.

[TottieandMarchpane]

Fair enough @highwindowsbluesky

It just seems very much “not in the spirit”, to me.

[Teacakeandalatte]

TAAT? grin This is Site Stuff, you numpty.

Yeah you should still report rather than starting a thread or put your complaint on the actual thread and report. I don't like it when threads are deleted people have spent their time and energy replying and deleting should be done with that in mind.

[MorrisZapp]

That thread's got nothing to do with victim blaming. My two closest friends have married domestically lazy men who never pretended to be anything else. Surprise surprise, guess who's got responsibility for the kids and the house? By all means choose your life partner by any criteria that suit, you're free to do so. But just as your choice of job will have consequences, so will your choice of partner.