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Jack Monroe thread deletion

(95 Posts)
MephistoMarley Mon 25-Jul-16 10:35:52

Is it just me or is this not an explanation as to why it was deleted?

^hread deleted
Message from MNHQ: Hi all - we are removing this thread^

Mumsnet is a general interest site; we moderate across a wide host of issues on a daily basis, and can’t claim to be experts in any one field. As a result, our policy in terms of Talk Guidelines and what we deem deletable has always been inclusive rather than exclusive: we find it more sustainable to operate under broad principles of mutual respect and courtesy, rather than specifying what users can and can’t say on any given topic

Ultimately, we think one of the real strengths of MN is that it allows users to have robust disagreements about difficult topics, but without hate speech, and without comments that are just plain mean (or personally directed at other posters.) If there are any posts that you think we need to look at please flag them up by hitting the 'Report' button and we'll always take a look

I'm asking because I'm concerned that there is a trend towards censoring debate around trans issues. I'm sure you did have a good reason to delete but I don't believe the message above communicates it. Could I request clarification please?

CherryPicking Mon 25-Jul-16 10:45:54

I didn't see any hate speech on that thread. It's just MN trying to avoid the wrath of JM,'s legal team. Again. And I'm one of the people who quite likes her and thinks she has a point.

DioneTheDiabolist Mon 25-Jul-16 11:24:55

It wasn't a debate about trans issues. It was a thread about JM. And a really nasty one at that. I read it last night and am glad that it is gone today.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Mon 25-Jul-16 11:29:18

It was deleted shock

I was also on that thread - there were some nasty comments about JM - things like she was self obsessed etc, and someone expressed concern about her child. However I have seen far worse allowed to stand on threads about other celebrities.

I am very surprised this thread has been deleted - at most I would have expected a small number of individual post deletions

It does feel rather liking shutting down conversation about trans issues.

I too would like to see some further clarification.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Mon 25-Jul-16 11:31:06

And the deletion message sounds like a reason not to delete the thread confused

Maybe MNHQ hit the wrong button and deleted the whole thread rather than an individual post (which the deletion message would make more sense for?)

unlimiteddilutingjuice Mon 25-Jul-16 11:35:46

Jack Monroe is a slightly unusual case in that she is a public figure and also a known Mumsnetter.
I didn't see the thread but I can understand Mumsnet HQ erring on the side of caution.

DioneTheDiabolist Mon 25-Jul-16 11:40:42

I would say the never ending Trans threads show that MN are not censoring debate around this issue.

I don't think deleting individual posts would have left the thread making much sense. The vitriol heaped on JM, a mother, MNetter and recent sufferer of a severe MH breakdown was disgusting and constituted personal attack.

fascicle Mon 25-Jul-16 11:44:13

The thread was personal and insidious with the article/JM used as an excuse to have a conversation little different from the many other trans critical threads.

DioneTheDiabolist Mon 25-Jul-16 11:45:36

I'm also glad that it's gone because I would have hated the backlash had the Daily Hate decided to make another MN thread "news".

CherryPicking Mon 25-Jul-16 11:46:43

As I said, I quite like her, and didn't find the thread particularly vitriolic. Saying someone seems self obsessed is fair comment if they're a public figure. It's not the same as wishing someone dead or some of the awful things she must have to put up with on less moderated sites. Does this mean we can't say that any celebrity is self obsessed now, MNHQ, or is Jack Monroe a special case?

KatherineMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 25-Jul-16 11:48:40

Hi there,

Apologies for not being clear. We removed the thread because we felt the OP post was quite nasty and just plain mean about an individual.

We certainly aren't censoring debate but we will remove threads or posts that fail to tread a line of mutual respect and courtesy.

Iggi999 Mon 25-Jul-16 11:49:08

I learned quite a lot from the discussion of gender on that thread. Hey ho.

RiverTam Mon 25-Jul-16 11:50:11

Hmmm. I'm not sure about this. She is a public figure and does put herself out there, and there's no getting away from the fact that she's all over the place, mentally speaking. But it's her choice to appear in the papers when she has something to sell, surely? And if she does that then yes, people will comment.

I'm assuming it's a legal issue. Why MN couldn't delete posts rather than the entire thread I don't know. If JM doesn't want people to comment on her personal choices then she shouldn't publicise her personal life. She can't have it both ways.

RiverTam Mon 25-Jul-16 11:50:58

Why are the Tayto threads still standing, then? They're pretty mean about people.

SuburbanRhonda Mon 25-Jul-16 11:54:39

You think the OP was "nasty and just plain mean"?

Was I on the same thread?

I find this really concerning as MN had up till then always been one of the places you could discuss trans issues without fear of being shut down. No more, obviously.

IPityThePontipines Mon 25-Jul-16 11:56:23

It was probably the case that there were more posts then not that broke talk guidelines, so they ditched the thread.

I did see some of it, it was not pleasant and then there was competitive outrage at the word "Cis", with one poster claiming that if anyone called her that in real life, she'd gouge out their eyes and put vinegar in the holes. I can imagine MN being happy to press the delete button from that point.

LoreleiGilmoreIsMyBFF Mon 25-Jul-16 12:04:47

And I still have no clue as to what non-binary means!

Fairylea Mon 25-Jul-16 12:07:29

If you can have threads about Taylor Swift and Tom Hiddleston then you can have threads about anyone famous. Jack M is famous. People are going to have opinions, it seems daft to censor them when other threads stand.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel Mon 25-Jul-16 12:14:04

Jack Monroe is emotionally vulnerable and there were lots of quite mean comments. Ideally she wouldn't be in the public eye in that state, but given that she is, I think it was responsible of MNHQ to pull the thread.

I really, really want us to be able to talk about the issues that her interview and public 'transition' have raised, but I think we need to tread very delicately to make sure it doesn't tip over into personal attack, given that she WILL be reading the thread and does not seem to be very strong or stable right now.

Lorelei76 Mon 25-Jul-16 12:14:12

The amount of vitriol Ive seen directed against Taylor Swift....that is not why the thread was deleted. If it is, then I expect those threads to go too.

For the record I don't do sleb twaddle, the TS thread cropped up on trending a while ago. Even the title of one of them was a personal attack.

this is beyond stupid.

thisisafakename Mon 25-Jul-16 12:15:35

OK, MNHQ, will you also delete some other posts about famous people that are 'plain mean'?

Teresa May
Boris Johnson
Prince George
Taylor Swift
Katie Price
Nigel Farage
Kate Middleton

I really hope you do because you wouldn't want anyone to be mean to people in the public eye, right?
This is an ADULT who puts herself in the spotlight and has given an interview discussing issues that for some are quite contentious. Interestingly, the Guardian has allowed comments on the article (even if, gasp, those comments are MEAN).

LilacSpunkMonkey Mon 25-Jul-16 12:18:37

Aren't we onto the third Taylor Swift thread now? How are they still going?

And the whole Serena Williams thread stayed for much longer than the JM one.

Is the difference that JM may complain in the press?

It seems like preferential treatment tbh.

LilacSpunkMonkey Mon 25-Jul-16 12:19:29

Oh, and the thread about Prince George!

Is that still there? A thread where people are lining up to take potshots at a toddler ffs.

MxJackMonroe Mon 25-Jul-16 12:19:56

Can I just add that I didn't see the original thread, as I was cooking at Jimmys Farm all day, so the removal was nothing to do with me or my 'legal team' (who is actually one man, only ever instructed against the Mail and Katie Hopkins. The day I call him about a Mumsnet thread is the day I pack everything in and myself onto a long holiday.)

I did the article as I was asked to by the Observer. It was supposed to be about the diversity awards, that was the hook. I don't go looking for interviews - they come to me, and I turn down around 95% of them. I appreciate that trans debate sparks heated responses but I have also tried hard to talk about my own experiences and not generalise.

I am going to start a thread where you can all ask what you like and I'll respond and take the criticism on the chin. People here clearly have questions and criticisms and I'm happy to try to answer them without the filter of a sub editor or agenda.

I like Mumsnet. I've never called my lawyer over anything here (that would be heavy handed and expensive) nor even reported a post. I'm generally reasonable and prefer to wade into the battle - as anyone who follows me on Twitter will attest.

Thread coming.


RiverTam Mon 25-Jul-16 12:20:22

'Ideally she wouldn't be in the public eye'. The only person who puts her in the public eye is Jack Monroe. I agree that she's very vulnerable to shouldn't be, but that's up to her.

At the end of the day, this deletion is saying that some articles in newspapers cannot be discussed. That's a very slippery slope, MN.

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