MN - too lenient on hate speech at present

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

Yesterday Amnesty International launched an urgent research campaign into the rise in hate speech Yesterday the UN High Comissioner urged Britain to urgently stop hate crimes

People need to call it out when they see hate speech on mn. There has been plenty recently. It can take courage when so many supporters then pile on though, but you don't need to get into an argument. A simple statement rejecting what they say, without quoting them, is enough. Just simply not saying anything then waiting several hours for mn to delete it adds power to their voice. People always need to report things to mn.

I am concerned that mn are not dealing with things quickly enough at the moment. They must be swamped with reports. I think that an option to report for hate speech should be an explicit available reason and those reports should be red flagged as urgent. The more hate speech that is seen, the more that it tacitly gives others the go ahead to say the same.

I've seen examples of a post being deleted, but the poster not being banned - despite them having said something that is so irrefutably xenophobic, that nobody could interpret it otherwise - and this concerns me. All that teaches them to do is to learn to moderate their language, so that they can get their messages across more subtly. This allows an insiduous tolerance of hate speech to creep across the boards.

It is important to allow freedom of discussion. It is wrong to allow xenophobia, racism and hate to proliferate. It's a difficult one to reconcile, but the balance needs to shift.

MN you could also help by cooperating with amnesty international in recording and reporting incidents to them.

[Flacidunicorn]

So you're saying you want freedom of speech as long as it agrees with your opinions?

I have not read a single post on here that I would call "racist"
I have read plenty of discussions of differing opinions. Now I may not agree with everyone but I also know that they are entitled to say what they believe.
It's a fundamental right of every person that they can say what they believe and it be discussed. Shutting down the discussion and banning any view points you don't share is first step toward Newspeak and totalitarianism.

[OurBlanche]

People need to call it out when they see hate speech on mn. There has been plenty recently. I know what you mean, But ther are people who are still so nagry nd scred tha they don't see what they post in that way. They think they are showing righteous indignation, are setting straight the thinking of the seriosuly deluded.

It is important to allow freedom of discussion. It is wrong to allow xenophobia, racism and hate to proliferate. It's a difficult one to reconcile, but the balance needs to shift Absolutely. Also include the invidious class and age focussed posts, which can be staggeringly nasty.

MN you could also help by cooperating with amnesty international in recording and reporting incidents to them. Overkill, maybe? I appreciate what you are saying, but there is also freedom of speech to defend. Few posters here sink to the depths of The Sun. If they do they are told they are wrong and reported, deleted. Some are trolling, others are precisely as they sound, bigots, foul mouthed and nasty. They usually remember to put their more socially acceptable face back on, or NC, as they would in Real Life.

As some psters add to such posts, maybe leaving such vileness and the posts decrying it will have an equa or greater impact.

Oh, and maybe the rest of MN will join us Scousers in never even looking at The Sun again... and publicly declaring it, loudly and often!

Maybe MN could officially state as much!!??

[user1465823522]

There is a big difference between hate speech and freedom of expression and so each and every post reported will need to be looked into and a judgement made on that.

[user1465823522]

MN you could also help by cooperating with amnesty international in recording and reporting incidents to them.

For reasons I won't get into here I have very little respect for Amnesty International and I think reporting posts to them is just overkill

[meditrina]

I would be really happy to see ageism zapped.

And the faster the better.

There really has been an awful lot over the last few days, and it's nasty.

But doesn't seem to feature in the Opening Post, even though it is a protected characteristic.

All or none, please.

And containing the hate - including the ageist hate - would be the course of action I'd prefer.

No need to make a song and dance about it - talk guidelines already allow for this - just do it.

[WellErrr]

It is incredibly rare that I see actual hate speech on mumsnet, and when I do it is swiftly dealt with. Very swiftly.

I see plenty of instances where people are offended; but this doesn't mean that what was said was offensive.

I like mumsnet because it is not overly censored. I think they get it right on the whole and they're quick to apologise on the rare occasion that they don't.

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

I'm not suggesting reporting every single post to AI, but to collate reports and cooperate in the same way that AI are asking local councils to do so, could be helpful. (though I've not actually asked AI - I think mn approach them)

[Booksandcrocheting]

I think a separate reporting category for hate crime would be a excellent idea, for all the hate crime categories.

[user1465823522]

I'm not suggesting reporting every single post to AI, but to collate reports and cooperate in the same way that AI are asking local councils to do so, could be helpful. (though I've not actually asked AI - I think mn approach them)

don't you think that AI have better things to do with their time that look into anonymous postings on a website?

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

over the last few days I have seen outright, indisputable hate speech. I won't link and they were eventually zapped, but it took several hours.

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

user, not for them to look into - they are conducting urgent research into the rise of hate speech and are collating data. The internet is precisely where vile ideas grow and take hold.

[WellErrr]

Examples?

[WellErrr]

I don't generally see hate speech on mumsnet so even paraphrased examples?

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

I'm not going to get drawn down that line if you haven't seen them, you've been reading happier threads than me!

[WellErrr]

But your view of hate speech may differ to mine. Is it 'gays are fucking disgusting and should be shot' or 'I don't think young people/old people should be allowed to vote?'

(None of the above are my views, obviously)

[user1465823522]

I think you are running the risk of hysteria over this.

[Kummerspeck]

Maybe I've just been lucky but I have not seen any outright racist posts. I've seen one or two that the poster felt was freedom of expression but others thought were xenophobic which were quite rightly "discussed robustly" as MN towers would say and I think that is the right way to deal with it. It educates and informs that poster and others (I include myself in this as I live in a very white middle class area so, while I know how kind and nice people would respond to something, I do not always have the awareness, experience or knowledge that others have) and think deleting and reporting to AI is absolutely the wrong way to go

I have, however, seen some really nasty posts about older people, Northerners, people without degrees and a general intolerance of people with different opinions, some of which I feel should have been deleted. I don't want MN to get into this idea of free speech as long as you are saying what we agree with but think we all need to think where the lines of what is acceptable lie

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

WellErr, precisely why I won't be drawn, else we will all be endlessly debating what constitutes hate speech. I think using mn guidelines
"We're all for freedom of speech. That said, we'll remove posts we consider to contain personal attacks, to break the law and/or to be obscene, racist, sexist, disablist, ageist, homophobic or transphobic, once they are brought to our attention. We will also delete any posts that we think are just seriously unpleasant (please note that any subsequent posts repeating the words in the deleted post may be deleted, too)." provides a sensible framework, as it's all one we have agreed to by posting here.

[WellErrr]

I think that if you've noticed enough of this to start this thread you should be at least able to back it up with ONE example.

I hate censorship, when it caters to the most easily offended person.

[EdithWeston]

There have been two long threads already this month, about disablism and about ageist, plus the one about SN.

So MNHQ must have a good idea of what members think (or rather that section of the membership which posted on them).

[BeyondTellingEveryoneRealFacts]

I've already suggested a third (law breaking, hate speech etc) option on reporting that has a higher priority on the disabilism thread :)

[BeyondTellingEveryoneRealFacts]

I reported a few racist posts over the weekend, every one was deleted eventually so obviously mnhq agreed that they were hate speech...

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

well done Beyond :)

[Samcro]

there should be an extra button, for things like disablism and hate speech.
they should then be prioritised.

[TaraCarter]

If you haven't seen racism on MN, you're either:
A) new,
B) spending too much time in RL instead of on MN,
C) posting it.

I agree that there needs to be an option to flag posts as hate speech. There is an option to flag as spam, so it should be workable to add another itty-bitty box.

Let's really not go down the "freedom of speech" cul-de-sac. We don't have complete freedom of speech or expression in public life, and we certainly don't on a privately-owned website.