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Hey MNHQ. Would it be possible to have a discussion about how SN issues/threads are handled on the main boards.

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MNHQ have commented on this thread.

Pagwatch Sun 12-Jun-16 11:38:07

I know you are fire fighting a bit and I'm not trying to stir things up.

I just think that there are endless threads that require you to get involved and try to (for the sake of a better word) mediate between pissed of posters with no real experience of SN/disability and pissed off member of the SN/disability community.

I think you try really really hard to be fair and even handed. It's an understandable response but I have growing doubts about it.
There have been half a dozen threads recently where posters I recognise as living with SN/disability issues deal with a continuous stream of posts from any random who pops up on a thread making the same stupid, ill informed or frankly goady post.
It's like swimming through a tidal wave of shit.
Then, as posters get increasingly exasperated by each arriving poster saying 'well I'm not putting my buggy away if my baby is asleep' or 'why can't I use the disabled toilet if it's empty' or 'but people with SN can be violent. I know of stabbing someone and attacks all the time' they get rude and the thread descends into eurrgh.

I'm still reading constant posts where anyone affected by disability is berated if they are angry, the message being 'be nice, be grateful or we don't have to be fair'

It seems to me that the status quo of 'fairness' is simply unfair.
Posters already dealing with immense difficulty shouldn't be forced to defend themselves against every person who turns up and says unpleasant things under the umbrella of debate. You said a long time ago it was not our responsibility to educate but the reality is that, with no palpable support from you guys, we are endlessly having to educate.

I am not pretending to have the answer but is it possible to contemplate methods by which you could actually say to posters saying 'if someone in a wheelchair can't use their space because I'm not putting my buggy away' that their comments are wrong and not in the spirit of the site?

You link to the This Is My Child campaign but the posters who are the problem won't care and won't read it.

I don't know - I just wonder if you could think about this.
Sometimes there are not two sides to a debate because only one side is directly affected, exhausted, distressed and having their lives and their children's lives made harder.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 Sun 12-Jun-16 11:41:38

I think posters are also taking opportunity to goad as as they see its a juicy subject.

Appreciate that action was taken the other night but they seem to manage to goad an awful lot and drag other posters in before action is taken.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 Sun 12-Jun-16 11:42:38

And I totally agree with what Pag is saying, it's like bear baiting on these threads.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 Sun 12-Jun-16 11:44:53

Hope this thread doesn't go same way.

It's just so disingenuous to be accused of being rude after being called all sorts without resorting to zpAs for a very long time indeed.

PolterGoose Sun 12-Jun-16 11:46:47

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pagwatch Sun 12-Jun-16 11:58:48

Yes Polter. That's my thinking.

Early enough in a thread might help.

It's just felt like a war zone on here this week.

TheWizardOfOs Sun 12-Jun-16 12:02:56

I'm with you. I've just given up reading or responding to so many threads.

Arfarfanarf Sun 12-Jun-16 12:07:47

I agree.
The message i get is that if you are disabled you must understand that your presence is an inconvenience and therefore you must smile and be apologetic and do everything in your power to ensure that you do not ever cause Proper People a second's bother and this must include never going anywhere the disabled person may impact on Proper People and if you do happen to go somewhere the minute the disabled person has any impact on the day of the Proper People you must leave because otherwise It's Just Not Being Fair.

It feels like some think you dont havethe right to express anger because really you should just be a bit sorry you're around in the first place.

This is how it feels to me as a personwith disabilities who is the mother of two children with disabilities

Ime far too many people 'care' right up to the point they have to compromise or your presence affects them and at that point they expect you to prioritise them.

Pagwatch Sun 12-Jun-16 12:12:13

I'm getting very tired of the
"Well people are not going to listen if you are rude' cop out.

I can't honestly think of an occasion where it hasn't been employed simply to validate someone hanging on to their shitty views.

Samcro Sun 12-Jun-16 12:12:26

well said pagwatch
and fanjo maybe it would be good if those gf did come on here as it would show mn hq what is meant.
even if you report not much happens. cos the poster is clever enough to not actually break the guide lines.

YourPerception Sun 12-Jun-16 12:14:23

I hope MQHQ find a helpful solution.

People with disabilities are a useful scapegoat she it comes to benefits and today I see we are useful victims when it comes to football hooliganism by another nation.hmm

People with disabilities are 'People' just like everyone else.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 Sun 12-Jun-16 12:16:35

To be fair I think there has been issued with reporting system.

But it's getting so easy to spot the goaders as they do the same on every thread. A quick zap would suffice.

PandasRock Sun 12-Jun-16 12:20:46

flowers Pagwatch.

Years and years ago I started a thread, after what seemed a horrible few months of disability bashing, and the endless posts and posters you describe, along the lines of 'please remember we are all doing our best' (meaning people coping with disability are as likely to, and entitled to, get shirty, fed up, might snap occasionally, etc, but that sometimes we are all just doing our best to get through the day).

It must have been in chat, because I've searched for it a few times over the last couple of years, wanting to link it on some of the threads you describe.

I read the other thread in site stuff this morning, and as ever was nodding along in agreement with you.

It does all seem a bit relentless again, doesn't it?

I don't know what the answer is. But I agree it needs more than a link to This Is My Child.

There was a time, back when it 'twer all fields round here, when it was argued that leaving threads to stand was better than deleting. It's gone past that now though. The sheer amount of name changing to goad, wind up threads is beyond credulity. Not just about disability.

It is definitely time for a lot of posters to remember that it isn't always just words on a screen. Which goes back to my old thread - it's time to remember that this isn't fantasyland. There are real people behind the usernames. If you wouldn't say it to someone's face (and despite all protestations, I would be very surprised if the majority of posters would actually say exactly what they type in a face to face situation) then you shouldn't type it.

And there are many posters who need to remember that having a conversation on an Internet forum isn't about winning, just as it isn't in RL, it's about chatting, sometimes about support, sometimes about information.

It's never about belittling, showing people up, and constantly trying to be Top Dog, to the detriment of anyone who is simply having a hard time and needs a sympathetic ear.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 Sun 12-Jun-16 12:24:17

That thread was awesome. I remember it well.

Pagwatch Sun 12-Jun-16 12:28:05

That's really interesting PandasRock - I totally agree.

I remember arguing that threads and comments should stand in order to illustrate the shit that gets posted. But the situation is different probably because the site is do much bigger.
Having crappy comments left on threads combined with the sheer proliferation of threads means that it is a tide of nastiness that emboldens other crappy posters.

On one thread there was one persistent twit who was endlessly posting awful guff and getting increasingly irritated responses. Which then just prompted more twits posting 'omg , you are being so rude to SelfishTwatkins! You don't get support that way you know! '
As if either of them ever had any intention of changing their crappy attitudes anyway...

Samcro Sun 12-Jun-16 12:28:24

the links to the TIMC campaign grate on me. as of late a lot of the threads have not been about children. BUT that aside
i can't think of any other minority that has to put up with this.
the endless threads where we are expected to educate.
the vilifying of our children.
the leaving up of threads that pretty much identify a child with sn.
i just wish that people who have kids with sn would be treated as people with feeling.

PandasRock Sun 12-Jun-16 12:30:13

Thanks, fanjo. I wish it hadn't been in chat.

It was after a lot of threads about what Arf describes - the whole 'I support your right to bring your disabled child to all sorts of places, as long as it doesn't impact on me'.

Maybe it's time for a step up from This Is My Child.

A campaign highlighting how disabled people aren't just to be tolerated, but are to be recognised as, you know, actual people. Not people who can have some concessions as long as it doesn't bother me and mine. Not people who can be asked to go away, or forgotten about when it isn't convenient to help them out.

Just people.

Samcro Sun 12-Jun-16 12:33:41

Just people.

yep that is what it could be called

PandasRock Sun 12-Jun-16 12:34:45

I also think a lot of people get very defensive about this kind of stuff being pointed out to them because it highlights that, actually, they are only paying lip service to equality.

People get ratty when it is pointed out that no, actually, it isn't ok because it is getting uncomfortably close to them having to acknowledge that they are actually being disablist.

A lot of people aren't very good at being honest with themselves. And to be fair, if that honesty is uncomfortable, then you can see why.

It can be easier for people to try to turn it around, take the piss, wind up, rather than sit down, have a good long hard think, and change their views.

PandasRock Sun 12-Jun-16 12:42:54

You know, I've spent so much time recently saying 'just people' on a whole host of issues.

Works for just about everything.

And I bloody wish wider society had the same attitude, rather than trying to shoehorn everyone into increasingly tiny boxes.

My son is not 'just' a boy. Nor is he 'just' ASD. Nor does he 'just' like pink things.

He is not in a minority category of 'small boy who likes girls things, but also cars, who has a recognised disability', he is just a person.

Because everyone is different, aren't they? (Not in a 'there's no such thing as disability, we are all disabled to some extent' way!)

And everyone should be valued, from the academic genius, to the artist, to the musician, to the roadsweeper, to people like my dd1 who won't be setting the world alight anytime soon, but makes an awful lot of people smile <biased>. All just people. None better than the next (in a superiority sense) but all with their own lives to lead.

Just5minswithDacre Sun 12-Jun-16 12:46:30

I also think a lot of people get very defensive about this kind of stuff being pointed out to them because it highlights that, actually, they are only paying lip service to equality.


thefamilyvonstrop Sun 12-Jun-16 12:51:25

Sometimes there are not two sides to a debate because only one side is directly affected, exhausted, distressed and having their lives and their children's lives made harder.

I agree with this. I think mnhq need to step in further on threads like the recent one with the zip line/child "being rude". Frankly, it becomes pointless after a while - posters with zero empathy saying children "must be shown how to behave" and the child's behaviour is called out as being naughty or out of order. There then follows lots of congratulatory posting about how they have / know a young child with special needs who won't get away with being rude/naughty as they "need to learn". It's sadly depressing and predictable.

I do understand its tough sometimes to be faced with behaviour that doesn't fit our perceptions of good manners but there is always a total lack of wanting to understand or accept the experise of the parents who deal with this day in day out on these threads.

There is always an implied (and sometimes explicit) rolling of eyes and mutters of "special needs brigade" too and how special needs don't give allowances for unacceptable behaviour.

Frankly, I think there is a strong undercurrent on mn that many posters think sen is just an excuse for poor parenting / being too soft etc. And I agree, linking to campaigns doesn't stop the self righteous posters who simply think better parenting would put a stop to all these badly behaved children. I mean, someone on the last thread mentioned how they would call the police ffs. You can't get less understanding and empathy than that.

It's the same posters who have to wade in every time to try and give the realities of life to posters who never listen.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 Sun 12-Jun-16 12:53:16

Yes and for objecting to all that I was repeatedly called a vile parent who doesn't give a shit and lets my child (who can't even be left alone for 2 mins) do what they want and make people's lives miserable. I mean really?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Sun 12-Jun-16 12:55:04

I think I may have seen one of these threads recently, and on that thread it was two parents of children with SN (so they said) going at it hammer and tongs.

It's a bit rough for MNHQ to mediate some issues when posters who do know what they are talking about violently disagree.

ilovesooty Sun 12-Jun-16 12:58:59

I'm able bodied and don't have any caring responsibilities though I do have an invisible disability.

I'm utterly appalled at the attitudes towards disability in evidence over the past week.

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