A subforum or sticky thread for FWR?

[ArsenicSoup]

Can we explore the options for a 'Shallow End' (working title) for FWR please?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2226781-Why-can-practical-feminism-not-be-a-sub-board-Or-thread?msgid=50511811#50511811

[Blistory]

Bump

[SkullytonFlowers]

fucking hell.

you do know that there was world war 3 not too many moons ago about FWR getting different sub forums?

Feminist theory and activism were supposed to be for the more hardcore discussions, and the chat meant to be a nice, friendly, casual place for people just toe-dipping to be able to come in and talk about the idea of feminism.

We did originally suggest a rad-fem section, but then we got accused of trying to shove them in a corner, Dittany threw an absolute fit and left over it, so feminism chat was created for the rest of us to use.

Now that lot have taken it over (like i said would happen) and once again, the milder feminist/toe-dippers are in here asking for yet another sub-board.

It wont work, they'll just piss all over it with their opinions and apologists accusations and no-one will still want to post over there for fear of being shouted down, shut up and run off the board.

[AuntieStella]

If FWR gets a stickied thread of this sort, will you be reversing the decisions to deny them in other topics?

I hope for consistency.

[FrauHelga]

Oh dear.

[ArsenicSoup]

anyone?

[Blistory]

Sorry, Arsenic - it was worth a go. I don't think that the request this time is under the same circumstances as last time but there's obviously some long memories.

[ArsenicSoup]

Gosh that was easily dropped.

[FrauHelga]

Bit like a fart in a space suit, Arsenic

[IrenetheQuaint]

I don't see what's wrong with Feminist Theory, actually - I've always been sad it's not been used properly.

I used to be a keen FWR-er, but the intellectual level is really too high for me to contribute these days (at least in the limited time I have), though I still learn a lot from it. I used to try to chip in with the odd post, but they would either get ignored or someone would (kindly and quite accurately) point out the weaknesses in my argument or terminology.

I should add that I'm not a newbie... I've read Greer, Jeffreys, Millett etc and gone to various feminist conferences. I have a decent grip on the fundamentals. But I can't contribute intelligently to a complex thread on gender theory. And if I feel like this I can quite see why less informed lurkers are terrified and put off. The Feminist Pub threads are lovely, but VERY fast-moving.

So - why not move the more intellectual threads to Feminist Theory, and let FWR chat be the home of spirited arguments about pubes and moaning about ludicrously gendered children's toys, etc?

[ArsenicSoup]

Sorry Skully - it took me a while to work my way back over here to answer properly.

I don't remember the FemWars, no.

I have just stumbled in on the back of the recent discussion.

There do seem to be frequent instances on the main boards of posters saying things like "I never considered myself feminist, but this rape/maternity/.... stuff has opened my eyes and now I am seeing inequality everywhere. Where should I go to find out more?"

I think I have noticed two a week recently. Nobody has anywhere on MN to direct them. Which is what made me look more closely at what was happening.

[ChristmasKateMumsnet]

Sorry - being el thicko here (am prepared to have my feminist badge and gun taken from me for not getting it) - what would the subforum be for?

[ArsenicSoup]

Hi ChristmasKate, well it's all very debated and debatable but for all the people who have been saying "I would like to post in FWR but....".

For more issue-led, theory-light discussion maybe (?) and for those not familiar with theoretical feminism (? again)

It might defuse the contentious discussion that seems to be ongoing.

[SkullytonFlowers]

it was in 2012, it started with Dittany suggesting a name change for the single solitary FWR board.

It blew up from there, but the extra boards were created with Theory/activism supposedly being for the more hardline/RadFem posters, with FWR chat being left for everyone else just coming around to feminism and wanting to be able to chat without the yells of rape apologist, sex pozzie and other things that used to get thrown out there to shut down conversation.

Over the last two years, the mumsnet radfems have stopped using activism/theory and taken over Chat, so now, someone else is suggesting yet another 'femlite' forum for everyone else to use.

I didnt mean to be harsh at you.. its just that a new subboard wont change anything, they will once again, take over and push everyone out, because no-one is allowed to discuss feminism on mumsnet unless you proscribe to the accepted rad-fem view.

[TunipTheUnconquerable]

Ah I must have never got the memo that the radfems weren't allowed to chat and were supposed to confine ourselves to the activism and theory boards.

[ArsenicSoup]

Thanks Skully I am starting to appreciate just what a saga this all is.

I didn't realise how new some of the boards there were either.

The current state of affairs is ludicrous IMHO. There seem to be dozens of women who want to use FWR but don't feel able to. But two long 'Why do more women not post on FWR?' threads don't seem to have resolved anything.

Who knows what the answer is?

[ArsenicSoup]

That point also makes sense Tunip which might be why designating a sub-forum as something like 'the shallow end' OR 'practical feminism' OR 'issues based feminism' might make the differentiation?

[SkullytonFlowers]

evidently you did tunip, as at the time, there were nearly 5000 posts to do with it, in FWR and in Site Stuff.

And just like back then, right now you're doing exactly the same as they did then, making it clear that no-one else was permitted a space free from being accused of being a rape apologist.

[SkullytonFlowers]

Arsenic, here, if you've got a couple of hours to kill :)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1499989-How-about-changing-this-sections-name-to-Anti-feminism-and-Defenses-of-Misogyny

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/1501328-Time-to-Split-the-FWR-forum

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/1506544-FWR-split-continued