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Man-Bashing, Bannings, Criticisms, Rules, Questions - Answers & Opinions please

(254 Posts)
bobkford Thu 21-Jul-11 11:21:58

After reading the site for a few months, due to my girlfriend using it (lurking usually), I decided to express my thoughts via a little animated short, and yesterday I joined up and posted a link to it here. It was soon removed and I was banned. Hmmm.

I won't post it again. You can find it on YouTube if you search 'Mumsnet No Menz' I don't think it was offensive. It was critical of Mumsnet in a humorous way... is that why I was banned? I looked in the rules and can find only 'Talk - all human life is there' and "Our policy is to keep intervention to a minimum and let the conversation flow. Having said that, we will remove postings that are obscene, contain personal attacks or break the law."

I don't see how the former is true if light-hearted critiques of Mumsnet are not allowed, but more so, my video was not obscene, did not contain any personal attacks or break the law' It did however raise some points, which I would honestly like Mumsnet or Mumsnetters opinions on. Please don't be too defensive (or indulge in 'personal attacks' of course) I think Mumsnet is on the whole a force for good, and one my partner and I may be seriously grateful for if and when a baby comes - but I also think it is not perfect and should not censor criticism. Such as

1. The site is called Mumsnet, but it is subtitled By Parents For Parents. Yet fathers are at best a token presence here, as most have realized they are not free to debate on issues where they find themselves in disagreement with a woman/women. Men are constantly mocked and ridiculed - in the AIBU section for example so many threads ask 'AIBU to be fucked off with my useless husband...' and women line up to say 'your husband sounds like a total pillock, throw his dinner in the bin' - reverse the sexes and the man would be labelled a misogynist bully and shown the door. If women found a website where men talked about their partners like that they would be horrified. The website moderators do nothing to confront man-bashing, so men leave or end up banned if they begin to complain.

2. I am not a Men's Rights Activist, nor anti-feminist (my gf is a feminist) but anyone who does not label themselves a feminist has their card marked. Any man that discusses an issue and does not agree with the 'feminist line' on the subject will be likely be labelled a troll and soon banned Hardly 'all human life is here'

3. As my video said I DO think its strange or inappropriate that there is a feminist section (and quote a dogmatic one if I may add) on Mumsnet, where so many regulars of that section proudly claim NOT to be parents.
It seems strange that a father on a parenting site can be banned for disagreeing with a (childless) feminist, about parenting issues, or gender issues, or many things. And yes, I have seen many virulently anti-male things in that section, yet it's virtually off-limits to even some moderate feminists (like my gf) because she would disagree with some of the rad fem positions and get abused/banned. It also seems to serve little purpose because discussion is not welcome there, only agreement with the feminist view on the matter. My feminist gf feels the same way, the members should welcome a chance to debate, even if they have done it before many times, as they are 'ambassadors' for feminism, and there are people reading.

4. I am not a father yet, but hopefully I soon will be. I don't want a Mumsnet AND a Dadsnet - I'd like Mumsnet to be more even handed with both sexes, or if thats not possible just admit its a site for mums/women and say men/dads aren't allowed. I'd much prefer the former of course. I want to do as much parenting as possible when I have children, and would hope I would be as welcome as any mother would be at Mumsnet, come the time I need advice help and support.

5. And finally, banning. How about an explanation when someone is banned? The men's rights activists were quite obvious, and I suppose could be banned if 'here to cause trouble' - but then again why couldn't a father who also believes in men's rights activism post here at a site for parents, unless he breaking a rule? Is this site only for people with one set of opinions? I have read the site's originators say that the site has no party line, all voices are there - is that really true? Is criticism, even done in an allegedly humorous way like my video, or this post, unwelcome? Am I now unwelcome because I've returned after being banned? I have heard regulars say that they would like to know the reason why someone got banned, I think it would be useful too.

I hope that isn't too long, and that I don't come across as a 'trouble maker' - As someone who may be needing Mumsnet or similar soon, I'm very interested in asking these questions and raising these criticisms, hopefully constructively.

BitOfFun Thu 21-Jul-11 13:47:16

This is all getting very dull. We like it here; you don't need to be here; there are lots of other places you can go.

bobkford Thu 21-Jul-11 13:47:16

giyadas - "So let me get this think a parenting website isn't the place for discussion of womens rights but you think mens rights are incredibly important and have posted about it here on Mumsnet and a DadsNet site?"

No. I think if a site says it is for parents, then to have a feminist section with many who posts there not actually being parents, is a little strange. And I don't think 'men's rights' are incredibly important' as much as I think that men on this site are concistently not allowed to disagree with women or feminists without risking being called a mysogynist or a MRA (I just got a post implying I was Jamez the MRA, that proves my point) banned.

So the For Parents By Parents tagline is misleading.

Tell me, who should be more welcome to post here - a father who does not call himself a feminist, or a woman who is a feminist but not a parent?

BitOfFun Thu 21-Jul-11 13:48:45

Just go away. You were banned, you are not welcome- just respect that, move on and do something more interesting for yourself.

giyadas Thu 21-Jul-11 13:51:03

It is for parents - mum parents. Get over it.

pictish Thu 21-Jul-11 13:52:15

Hahaha I think your videos are hilarious!!!

You clearly have a bee in your bonnet about all this, and far too much time on your hands....but cheers for the laughs. grin

ZacharyQuack Thu 21-Jul-11 13:52:43

But you're not a father? So why are you wanking going on about Father not Feminist vs blah blah blah

This has been done before (was that you?) it's very tedious. Haven't you got a hobby or something? Are there no trains that need spotting?

AuntieMonica Thu 21-Jul-11 13:53:15

Tell me, who should be more welcome to post here - a father who does not call himself a feminist, or a woman who is a feminist but not a parent?

can i add a 3rd option to your very exclusive list, please?

or someone who wasn't so bloody obssessive about roles and your own dick?

bobkford Thu 21-Jul-11 13:55:35

I will go away. I will probably be banned soon, as I imagine many of you are using the 'report' button. But nobody has intelligently addressed the important points regarding the gender bias and home for misandry that is Mumsnet. Nobody from Mumsnet will answer important questions regarding their misleading image and unfair, sexist agenda. These questions will not go away when I do.

pictish Thu 21-Jul-11 13:55:56

Btw - I think you're making way too much of a deal about the feminist section of the site - so you think it's weird to have non mums post in that section, but really that's your problem isn't it? I'm not fond of the feminism section myself...all a bit rah rah rah for me...but I defintely think it has its place and don't mind WHO posts in it.

AuntieMonica Thu 21-Jul-11 13:56:43

fancy a pot of worms, bob?

pictish Thu 21-Jul-11 13:57:19

I disagree - those questions WILL go away when you do....seeing as you're the person asking them.
Your second video does drivel on at length doesn't it?
Bored now.

BitOfFun Thu 21-Jul-11 13:58:07


tethersend Thu 21-Jul-11 13:59:25

"But nobody has intelligently addressed the important points regarding the gender bias and home for misandry that is Mumsnet."

Give me a shout once you've made one, and I'll be happy to respond. Cheers smile

ZacharyQuack Thu 21-Jul-11 13:59:26

You're the only one who thinks your questions are important. The rest of us are either ignoring you or taking the piss.

HTH smile

giyadas Thu 21-Jul-11 14:05:57

Ok, you've convinced me. I will now campaign tirelessly to get the strapline modified. How about 'Mumsnet - by mums for mums, but dads are welcome too, but not for whiny little idiots who clearly hate women and we mean you Jamez and Dan'?
whaddya reckon? catchy eh?

lawnimp Thu 21-Jul-11 14:06:10

your video is weird, i don't like the voices

it's also a bit silly

lots of men post on here, i could be a man for all you know

houseofheave Thu 21-Jul-11 14:06:17


So soon?

It astounds me that anyone could feel so threatened about a forum having a feminist section that they would go to these lengths.

Have you considered looking into the hobbies section for some ideas of better ways to spend your time?

WhereYouLeftIt Thu 21-Jul-11 14:11:07

"I don't think it was offensive. It was critical of Mumsnet in a humorous way"

Actually, it wasn't humourous at all Bob. Maybe it was the droney computer-generated voices, but it came across as sarcastic, not humourous at all.

As for the non-parents; well of course there are non-parents here! Some because they are TTC (trying to conceive) and come for advice/reassurance. Some because they just like a laugh. You are, after all, a non-parent yourself - why are you here?

Given the titles of your other videos on YouTube, you do seem a little obsessed about gender issues.

To Anglcise Robert Burns :
O would some power the gift to give us to see ourselves as others see us.
Reflect, Bob. Reflect.

tethersend Thu 21-Jul-11 14:12:49

He's right, you know- there's misandry everywhere.

I stepped in some this morning.

Prolesworth Thu 21-Jul-11 14:13:53

Message withdrawn

WhereYouLeftIt Thu 21-Jul-11 14:22:46

tethers! <wags finger> grin

JustineMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 21-Jul-11 14:24:46

Have to say your video made us chuckle, bobkford - we are right now considering investing in some Squaws outfits for HQ. In retrospect we should have left it up - we deleted it because you'd previously been banned not because it was critical of us but it was pretty harmless, so apologies for deleting it.

Anyway as everyone's said, Mumsnet as far as we can tell has lots of male users (we don't check credentials at the door) and they are very welcome. The feminist section is one small part of the site. Lots of Mumsnetters are feminists (male and female) lots are not. Some Mumsnetters are radical feminists, many disagree with them. We do allow a diversity of opinion but we draw the line at folks (usually after a warning) whose sole purpose seems to be to wind others up because our specified aim is to make parents' lives easier and life is really too short. (And we had noted that there was a discussion on the antimisandry forum about the intention to stir up trouble/troll on MN.)

With regard to campaigns, we only campaign (as MNHQ) on issues on which, broadly speaking, there is unanimity.

StayFrosty Thu 21-Jul-11 14:25:11

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

merryberry Thu 21-Jul-11 14:25:41

Lumpen stuff. Dull. Solipsistic.

BitOfFun Thu 21-Jul-11 14:26:28

Can you show him the door now

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