Man-Bashing, Bannings, Criticisms, Rules, Questions - Answers & Opinions please(254 Posts)
After reading the site for a few months, due to my girlfriend using it (lurking usually), I decided to express my thoughts via a little animated short, and yesterday I joined up and posted a link to it here. It was soon removed and I was banned. Hmmm.
I won't post it again. You can find it on YouTube if you search 'Mumsnet No Menz' I don't think it was offensive. It was critical of Mumsnet in a humorous way... is that why I was banned? I looked in the rules and can find only 'Talk - all human life is there' and "Our policy is to keep intervention to a minimum and let the conversation flow. Having said that, we will remove postings that are obscene, contain personal attacks or break the law."
I don't see how the former is true if light-hearted critiques of Mumsnet are not allowed, but more so, my video was not obscene, did not contain any personal attacks or break the law' It did however raise some points, which I would honestly like Mumsnet or Mumsnetters opinions on. Please don't be too defensive (or indulge in 'personal attacks' of course) I think Mumsnet is on the whole a force for good, and one my partner and I may be seriously grateful for if and when a baby comes - but I also think it is not perfect and should not censor criticism. Such as
1. The site is called Mumsnet, but it is subtitled By Parents For Parents. Yet fathers are at best a token presence here, as most have realized they are not free to debate on issues where they find themselves in disagreement with a woman/women. Men are constantly mocked and ridiculed - in the AIBU section for example so many threads ask 'AIBU to be fucked off with my useless husband...' and women line up to say 'your husband sounds like a total pillock, throw his dinner in the bin' - reverse the sexes and the man would be labelled a misogynist bully and shown the door. If women found a website where men talked about their partners like that they would be horrified. The website moderators do nothing to confront man-bashing, so men leave or end up banned if they begin to complain.
2. I am not a Men's Rights Activist, nor anti-feminist (my gf is a feminist) but anyone who does not label themselves a feminist has their card marked. Any man that discusses an issue and does not agree with the 'feminist line' on the subject will be likely be labelled a troll and soon banned Hardly 'all human life is here'
3. As my video said I DO think its strange or inappropriate that there is a feminist section (and quote a dogmatic one if I may add) on Mumsnet, where so many regulars of that section proudly claim NOT to be parents.
It seems strange that a father on a parenting site can be banned for disagreeing with a (childless) feminist, about parenting issues, or gender issues, or many things. And yes, I have seen many virulently anti-male things in that section, yet it's virtually off-limits to even some moderate feminists (like my gf) because she would disagree with some of the rad fem positions and get abused/banned. It also seems to serve little purpose because discussion is not welcome there, only agreement with the feminist view on the matter. My feminist gf feels the same way, the members should welcome a chance to debate, even if they have done it before many times, as they are 'ambassadors' for feminism, and there are people reading.
4. I am not a father yet, but hopefully I soon will be. I don't want a Mumsnet AND a Dadsnet - I'd like Mumsnet to be more even handed with both sexes, or if thats not possible just admit its a site for mums/women and say men/dads aren't allowed. I'd much prefer the former of course. I want to do as much parenting as possible when I have children, and would hope I would be as welcome as any mother would be at Mumsnet, come the time I need advice help and support.
5. And finally, banning. How about an explanation when someone is banned? The men's rights activists were quite obvious, and I suppose could be banned if 'here to cause trouble' - but then again why couldn't a father who also believes in men's rights activism post here at a site for parents, unless he breaking a rule? Is this site only for people with one set of opinions? I have read the site's originators say that the site has no party line, all voices are there - is that really true? Is criticism, even done in an allegedly humorous way like my video, or this post, unwelcome? Am I now unwelcome because I've returned after being banned? I have heard regulars say that they would like to know the reason why someone got banned, I think it would be useful too.
I hope that isn't too long, and that I don't come across as a 'trouble maker' - As someone who may be needing Mumsnet or similar soon, I'm very interested in asking these questions and raising these criticisms, hopefully constructively.
you were banned....doesnt that tell you something??
Yes, you do come across as a troublemaker. If you don't like how this site is run, then go and find another one.
Mumsnet is unique in that is female dominated and women can speak freely here without having to tolerate the misogyny that is prevalent on many, many other sites. Why do you begrudge women one site of their own?
Justine et al run mn how they see fit. They have every right to and they do a very good job, that's why the site is so popular. It's incredibly arrogant to expect it all to change to suit you.
So, in short, go away.
You seem a little insecure. People with similar interests group together naturally. If the topics do not interest you then find another site where your views are welcomed. You can't force people to like you. There is no man bashing -just abusive person bashing. There is a difference.
Making a video seems a bit... I don't know, provocative? Why not just post something like this in the first place?
Men are just as welcome as women on mumsnet, whether they are asking for parenting advice or whatever else, unless they are here to spout sexist bile, the same as posters who come to spout homophobic, racist or disablist rubbish are not welcome. Most of the "Leave him!" posts in AIBU are a joke, BTW.
A video seemed more fun, BB.
I am disappointed that I took the trouble to write a polite post, asking fair questions, and voicing my opinion (which is quite different from telling anyone how to run their business of course, giyadas), and every reply so far is insulting me and/or boliing down to 'if you don't like it, leave.'
Well I run a business and am very interested in what my customers think of the service I provide, or how it could be improved. I wouldn't say 'If you don't like how I do it, piss off elsewhere.'
would you value the opinion of a banned customer in your business Bob??
Oh Bob,Oh Bob,Oh Bob <loud tutting noises>
Never mind....it isn't a widely known fact that when God made Man,She was joking <runs away>
3/10- don't think there's been a video troller before!
If this is real (and not someone self-publicising his film business ) - Bob- you've been here 1 day... MN has been here 11 years- I'm quite sure MNHQ know what they're doing with regard to running the boards.
'By parents, for parents' - maybe you'll get it in the future?
If you want to make MN a better place- start contributing, that's how communities work.
I have often thought that they should change the name though
Y'see- it's all just a buit 'me, me, me'.
If I read a site for a while, and it's not quite for me I just don't post.
See how easy that is?
Why bother with the video and critiquing?
So let me get this right...you think a parenting website isn't the place for discussion of womens rights but you think mens rights are incredibly important and have posted about it here on Mumsnet and a DadsNet site?
You've gone from forum to forum trying to get as many people to troll here as possible then you get arsey when we don't all fall at your feet?
You're a very strange petty little man.
RoundOrangeHead - why change the name? There's a dadsnet board here, a full dadsnet site and other sites aimed at dads. They don't get the constant grief over their name. I wonder why?
The internet is a big ol' place, and there are lots of sites with a different gender balance that you might be happier with. Most of us enjoy this one as it is, hence why it is so big. You aren't the boss of us.
It's seen as rude when a new poster rocks up and starts spouting off about all the things wrong with MN and how it should be improved without spending any time contributing to threads.
You're certainly not the first person to try it (though the video is an
anal interesting twist) and you won't be the last. Won't make any difference though.
OP's girlfriend, if you're reading this, remember MN. You may need us one day.
With great power comes great responsibility. Mumsnet has become a very popular powerful site for parents. It is ok to ask if they are using that responsibility wisely and fairly. I would like Mumsnet to be everything it can be, and that means either addressing some of the issues I have raised - or ignoring them.
Everyone has the right to say it's just fine the way it is. I'm not telling anyone they are wrong, but I don't see what is wrong with me asking questions about how aspects of the site seem unfair or unclear (ie why some people get banned without seemingly breaking any rules while others consistently break the rules of conduct and are never banned. As I say, I joined yesterday but have been reading for a couple of months).
Ok, well two things strike me...
1. You are allowed to be a feminist and a parent. You may as well question why MN has a pet section.
2. You've clearly had issues about this for aaaages
Actually, yes- I don't have a dog; it's unfair that MN has a dog topic. The bastards!
<runs off to make sub-Numberjacks standard animation about it>
4. I am not a father yet, but hopefully I soon will be. I don't want a Mumsnet AND a Dadsnet - I'd like Mumsnet to be more even handed with both sexes, or if thats not possible just admit its a site for mums/women and say men/dads aren't allowed. I'd much prefer the former of course. I want to do as much parenting as possible when I have children, and would hope I would be as welcome as any mother would be at Mumsnet, come the time I need advice help and support
i think this may give you a little indication as to why you haven't been a very welcome visitor to the Feminist Section at least. You're a man, coming into an extremely successful site and asking for changes, because YOU don't feel comfortable as a man <eyeroll>
Join in, as a person foremost, then on topics which you have personal interest.
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