Am I old fashioned for wanting to date before sex?

[Heidi3333]

Hi I'm 45 and haven't had sex for nearly 10 years!!
I have let plenty of men - both
In real life and online - but most of them want sex before even going on a date.

Most recently a male friend I liked came round to my flat to visit a few times. He never once asked me out on a date but
Instead thought it was ok to start feeling my bum when I got up off the sofa to make him a coffee. I told him to p!ss off.

Then another guy who I'm friends with on FB and is a tradesman who has done work in my house a few times started sending me sexy messages and asking for nude pictures. When I suggested meeting for a coffee instead he said he wouldn't be available for 5 weeks as he was too busy.

This is just 2 examples of what I'm on about. If a man behaves like this then it just turns me off and things never move forward.

Am I old fashioned? Is the only way to get a man these days to put out first?

Sometimes I despair 😩

[xpc316e]

No, you're not old fashioned. You have your own standards and there is no need to recalibrate them to suit a bunch of men who think they are God's gift to women.

[Happyhusband]

Personally I could not and did not ever consider sex as a prerequisite. Maybe I am squeamish but I'd always want to know the person first before getting naked .

[StarlightLady]

No you are not old fashioned.

And 100%, nobody should ever touch your bum or any part of you without consent.

[j712adrian]

Crikey no. You need to find a decent bloke.

[heartlikepaper]

definitely not old fashioned! you need to get the vibes off a person in real life in my opinion, and if grabbing your ass without your consent is the vibe he should definitely be shown the door. bunch of chancers.

[Paul72]

Can I comment as a man on here?
I have never wanted sex without some sort of friendship. I know some men want a quick shag and bye-bye but I can’t see that it would be much fun. Surely it is far better to get to know the person and then enjoy a really meaningful time together.
I think part of the fun is getting to know each other and chatting and wondering.
I met my wife online and we chatted online for a month or so before meeting. On our first date we had a meal and I have no idea how many cups of coffee as we spent about 3 hours chatting in the restaurant. On our second date we had a meal, chatted for an hour or so then we ended up in my flat where we had sex. That is not exactly true, it was not just sex it was wonderful sex because we knew each other and respected each other and knew what we thought about so many things.

[Heidi3333]

Hi everyone

Thanks for the replies.
It's good to know that there's people out there that agree with me!
I'm not a prude and love sex (but only in a relationship) but I've never had a one night stand. I'm happy to mess about sexually with someone new but I'd never have unless I was seeing someone.
The sad thing is so many men don't fit into my ideals. The majority of men I meet won't sex first before anything else.im a single mum with a 4 year old daughter and I sometimes wonder if they see me as easy prey by assuming I must be lonely and desperate. It makes me really mad when they treat me like that 😡.

Paul72 I love your story. It's gives me hope that there's some decent men out there. Just very hard to meet some it seems!

[Ihg27]

@StarlightLady

No you are not old fashioned.

And 100%, nobody should ever touch your bum or any part of you without consent.

I am intrigued as to what you class as consent in this context. He made a move, OP said no, end of.

Clearly if he had carried on that would have been wrong on every level.

Point I am trying to make is that in 49 odd years, three long term relationships, several one night stands and many fumbles in night clubs etc, never have I asked if it’s Ok to kiss someone, place a hand on their thigh, put an arm around them, hold their hand etc etc. You just read the situation and make a move.

A couple of times I have been told to jog on for misreading a situation slightly.

Are you really saying that in 2020 on a date if I think the woman might want to take things further I should ask permission before putting a hand on her knee in a restaurant?

[StarlightLady]

@lhg27 - What is the problem in saying something like “are you comfortable with this”?

And why should someone you have just met assume it is OK to put their hands on your bum?

I am not a prude, l’ve chosen to have sex with someone the first day l have met them, but checking for consent is vital.

This is exactly why so much has hit the media pf late.

[Heidi3333]

@lhg I think there is a difference between putting your arm around someone and touching someone's hand to feeling their bum! The latter is overtly sexual. The fact the guy done it in front of my 4 year old made it seem even more inappropriate.

[TooTrueToBeGood]

I'm the same as Paul. I'm in my mid fifties now and have never had a one night stand or sex with any woman I wasn't in a meaningful relationship with. I don't in any way judge anyone who lives their life differently but I don't feel any regret or that I've missed out on anything, quite the opposite really. It's not about being old fashioned, it's about being confident in yourself and not feeling pressured to compromise your expectations and personal preferences.

[Happyhusband]

Yes what he said. Quality and respect.

[AverageGuy]

@Ihg27
Interesting.
I got royally lambasted on the dating forum because I admitted that I occasionally touch a date on the leg or arm to make a point during conversation.

I was told that I was "part of the problem" re sexual abuse... Needless to say, I'm no longer part of that forum.

I would say it's tricky. At what point should you ask for consent?

I have, in the past, kissed a woman without consent - am I a sex pest?

I have also asked a woman for consent before anything I considered overtly sexual, but my view of "overtly sexual" might not match someone elses...

Where does one draw the line?

Certainly, if I did something, and was told "no", then I wouldn't try it again.

[AverageGuy]

And then there is explicit consent, and implicit consent.

Imho, explicit is where a question has been asked and answered - "can I kiss you?" "yes" - obvious, and without room for misunderstanding.

Implicit is where you might chance a feel of a buttock, or something, and get no resistance or told to stop.

I'm afraid to admit I've done both, (and I defy any man to say / prove they haven't!) but since my divorce, I'm all about the explicit.

Oh, I'm 58, and have had a marriage, ltr's, ONS's & FWB - if it matters...

[Ihg27]

I have kissed loads of people with verbal or written consent! Does anyone really say, is it ok if I put on hand on your cheek, the other on your hip, and my lips on your? Could I please have further permission to put my tongue in your mouth and it you haven’t pushed me away after 30-45 seconds I might move my left hand onto your bum.

Yes consent is vital, but it’s not a written or verbal agreement in the vast majority of cases. It’s reading subtle signs and signal, and knowing when to stop if you read them incorrectly.

For the record I have had far more women put hands on me first than I have in return. Especially when dancing in clubs. Loads of woman think Kirk thing of just coming up and grinding against you or grabbing your arse or crotch.

I either reciprocate or tell them to do one.

[SirGawain]

[quote Heidi3333]@lhg I think there is a difference between putting your arm around someone and touching someone's hand to feeling their bum! The latter is overtly sexual. The fact the guy done it in front of my 4 year old made it seem even more inappropriate.[/quote]
I thought that you said in your opening post that you hadn’t had sex for ten years; was you four year old a miracle birth!

[Heidi3333]

Sirgirwan she was almost a miracle baby! I used a sperm donor and IvF to have her.

[StarlightLady]

I really don’t think the seeking consent thing is complicated. If you put your hand on someone’s shoulder (possibly a good starting point) or go to hold somebody’s hand, it should be obvious if it welcome or not. If those welcome signals are clearly given, without coercion, that is consent.

If, say, you are going to put your hand in someone’s knickers, it’s right to check they are comfortable with your actions.

Avoid intimate areas for the first touch and, if touch is welcome, continue to know, the difference between a caress and a grab or a grope.

[TooTrueToBeGood]

I really don’t think the seeking consent thing is complicated.

Of course it's not. Simple rule - if you are not 100% sure you have consent then assume you don't. Enthusiastic consent is extremely bloody obvious. The problem is men who think no means maybe or the absence of an explicit no means an implied yes.

[Thelittleweasel]

@Heidi3333

Oh please tell me this is not now the norm. In my day the suggestion was "bonk on the third date"

[Heidi3333]

The little weasel

Maybe I've just been unlucky but in my experience 99% of men bring up the S word before we even had our first date! Very frustrating and disappointing 😔

[Gwenhwyfar]

"Yes consent is vital, but it’s not a written or verbal agreement in the vast majority of cases. It’s reading subtle signs and signal, and knowing when to stop if you read them incorrectly."

Yes, but someone who goes straight to hand on the bum without any other closeness is not taking the time to read the signals?

[Anotheruser02]

I'm finding this too. I've spelt it out on a few occasions that I just need to feel a bit chill with someone first, tbh I would happily go there after 3 dates or so usually, but it's highlighted as a disappointment before that like wanting a couple of dates is stringing someone along. I find the pushyness a massive turn off.
I don't even need to be seeing someone or thinking it will head anywhere serious, I don't have sex as an investment into the future, but to enjoy it I do need to feel relaxed with a man so to feel his frustration that he had to go out with me first makes me feel anxious. Generally I'm quite tactile, I love dates and talking to people, I've no problem kissing and joking around but I don't want to be naked and vulnerable with someone the first or second time I meet them. About 10 years ago I did a lot of internet dating and it was really fun, usually would go home with someone third or fourth date and that was never questioned, I don't know if men in their 30's are better mannered than in their 40's or if times have changed that badly but something is different.

[Hollyhocksarenotmessy]

I wonder if it is a single mum thing. I swear that I had a 5 year stint of creeps wanting instant no strings sex in a creepy way. Not even 'normal' 1 night stands, as in meet someone out, have a laugh, dance, and go home together. But situations where i'd be expecting an invitation to a date.

It was horrible. I think they do believe you are desperate for a shag. With any random man.

[Heidi3333]

Hollyhocks yes I do think it is a single mum thing too. I think they must see us as easy prey and sitting at home lonely and desperate for sex. Nothing could be further from the truth. Really gets on my nerves 😡