"If she didn't come, he didn't bang her hard enough"

[WickedLazy]

Said by male friend to me tonight. Or a variation of this. He said that he thought over 90% of the women he'd had sex with, had orgasamed just through penetration alone. I tried to explain how the clit works, and that most women can't orgasm without clit stimulation. I don't think he grasped what I was on about?

He argued that if you "bang a woman hard enough" she'll come. That's all it takes. Then he changed the subject. For me, just being pentrated for a long time can be quite tedious. And going harder or deeper isn't going to do much for me if it's past the 10 minute mark (10 mins of just pentration I mean). Are most of a womans nerves not in the first few inches of her vagina? This guy has a big penis, and I feel like he thinks that's all it takes? I imagine his technique outside penetration would be woeful.

So my questions, why do so many men not understand how to make a woman orgasm?? Is it ignorance, selfishness, indifference, or what? How likely is it this guy really made over 15 woman (that's a guess, possibly more) come just through penetration? I'm inclined to believe they've been faking it to spare his feelings? He also doesn't really believe in foreplay, or kissing during sex! Surely kissing and foreplay are what get most women ready for sex, are an integral part, and often how they orgasm? He said something once like "kissing is only for puppy love when you're a kid". Sex for him really seems to mean put penis in vagina and go.

Another question, do men generally actually enjoy foreplay, or is it something they tolerate to please the woman? Do they really want the kind of sex my mate seems to enjoy, but know that most women wouldn't tolerate that for long, would get sick of it, or don't want to be selfish?

[Poshindevon]

Your friend sounds like a selfish neanderthal who just wants a "wham bam thank you mam "
By pleasing each other you can have really good sex so I dont agree that men tolerate foreplay, not in my experience any way.

[WickedLazy]

Most men I've slept with, including ltr's seemed to really enjoy foreplay. Had the odd "wham bam thank you mam" type myself over the years (perfect phrase!), but had assumed these guys were the minority.

But, the more I hear mean talking privately, (my job in a very male dominated place, and the nature of my job, means I overhear a lot of demeaning conversations), what I read online, and mate coming out so matter of factly about all that last night, did make me wonder, is foreplay just a means to an end (to get to play hide the sausage) for a lot of men?

I hear so much irl about cheating, guys you'd never in a million years think would be at that (a few who tried it on with me, so I know it's 100% true) and read so much online, (and been cheated on myself) that I was already wondering if more men are privately/secretly sexist, selfish, misogynistic etc than a lot of women (sometimes even their wives), realise. Then this whole subject opened up. I'm single and dating at the minute. Are there really a lot of good, decent men out there, (who also know how to please a woman), or just a load of liars, manipulators and neanderthals?

[LoniceraJaponica]

Because a lot of women fake it. Also TV and films make it look like that is how it always happens.

Both scenarios don't do women any favours.

[NobbyNobberson]

I would have asked him if he realised they were probably all faking it just to get him to stop.

[WickedLazy]

I did say something along the lines of "so they said...", but he was adamant he'd blown all their minds .

[flapjackfairy]

I think that men often say things to other men that are designed to fit in with the jack the lad stereotype and are not necessarily what they think deep down .

[ImCatbug]

When women fake it, men think they’ve done an amazing job and so will continue doing the same. If they’ve only been with women who fake, they won’t know any better.
Plus sometimes it’s not easy to tell if a woman has come if they don’t squirt or anything, I have a partner ask me if I’ve come to check even when it’s been fairly obvious I have (and I don’t fake it).
Same partner genuinely loves foreplay and would be happy to do it for hours (literally), just performing oral on me/touching me. Sometimes the actual penis-in-vagina part is like an afterthought. So yes, there are men who genuinely like it.

[WickedLazy]

Do a lot of men actually think like this deep down though? And talking with other men like this just reinforces the idea, that woman are easentialy fuck holes? (And breeders/skivvies the rest of the time). When they get caught talking like this, they always seem to bleat they were "just trying to be one of the lads", but is that true..?

[WickedLazy]

*essntially

[WickedLazy]

damn

[Postagestamppat]

I am of an older generation. Pre-endless porn on demand. The men I was with all liked foreplay and all would insist on giving oral sex. All knew that it required more than just banging away to get a woman to come. But like I said, i am of the generation that learnt about sex from doing it with each other, with a bit of schoolyard advice thrown in.

There were a few demeaning conversations about women (l also worked in a very male environment) but cheating was frowned upon, although it was accepted that it happened.

I do believe the internet has had a big effect with nearly all young men now having porn in their teenage years as their point of reference for sex. But as I will never have sex with several millennials, it is hard to test this idea.

[QueenAravisOfArchenland]

HAHAHAHAHA! I guarantee that 95 to 100% of the women this loser has slept with think he's crap in bed. Frankly, I'd snort contemptuously at him and be secretly rather amused at his delusion.

There are certainly men that think this way and porn doesn't help. More than we all might like to think. Not all of them though.

[NameChangedAndForgotOldName]

As much as I enjoy a good hard banging, I need stimulation to orgasm

[HerOtherHalf]

He said that he thought over 90% of the women he'd had sex with, had orgasmed just through penetration alone

Sure they did. I'll bet most of them faked it just to get him to stop.

As to your main question, do most men think like this? Who knows. I dare say a lot do but equally I would expect a lot don't. What's important to you is not to settle for that for yourself. Find someone who cares about you, realises you are an individual with your own preferences and make sure they are confident enough to discuss and respect each others needs, likes and dislikes.

[Theresnonamesleft]

She doesn’t have anything to do with it. They are just selfish.
Blaiming porn surely includes anyone under 50ish. It’s not a new thing. I have had sex with guys older than this and still wham bang thank you mam.
I’ve also had sex with younger guys and they have been more attentive.

What I have noticed is selfish ones are also like this out of bed. Once the chase is over they revert back to their selfish selfs.

[Theresnonamesleft]

Age doesn’t *

[Njordsgrrrl]

I think lots just assume we all like what they like. So penetration / lots of it / huge penises must be better, blah blah. Quite how this squares with tampon use, smear tests, having babies and women not orgasming all over the place I have no idea...This ignorance might also be to blame for ridiculous attitudes to rape. Must have enjoyed it really etc. If you knew women just don't 'work' like that, you wouldn't get that thinking.

[AnchorDownDeepBreath]

Agree that age has nothing to do with it. I've slept with rubbish men and great ones; with not huge age differences.

I can orgasm through penetration alone, but DP is amazing at doing whatever it takes to ensure I enjoy myself. Oral; fingers; toys, certain positions... I have no doubt that he'd do whatever I needed to get off. I've never had to fake it with him.

There are people that I've faked it with; and never slept with again. They may well have be influenced by porn; or just be selfish knobs.

[WickedLazy]

Just reminded about hearing comments over the years about "giving women a good seeing to", how woman want "real men", not namby, pamby, fruity men . These men have clearly all convinced themselves, that deep down, that's what we crave. "If you knew women just don't 'work' like that, you wouldn't get that thinking"

[WickedLazy]

*women

[Njordsgrrrl]

Ugh. That's reminded me. My Dad, who is the mildest man, once said that about my (single) "difficult" aunt, his sister in law. I was only about thirteen and it really shocked me! She was an absolute cow but there was no need for that.

[Njordsgrrrl]

The cognitive dissonance when men who think like this have daughters and mothers.. It must be exhausting compartmentalising. And in answer to your OP, good-uns do exist 😎 but there's plenty out there for the watching.

[IsItIorAreTheOthersCrazy]

I think it's a mix of things tbh. Some men are selfish and don't really care about their partners pleasure. Some watch porn and think that all women need is PIV. Some men do their best and their partner fakes it, leading them to believe that what they're doing works. Some men are too shy to try anything except PIV. Some would be willing but if a partner doesn't help them, they cannot learn. Some men just do what worked for one partner, thinking if it worked for one it will work for all.

Also, don't underestimate male bravado. I have a friend who made comments like this over the years and I used to think he was a bit of a selfish arse. I've since made friends with his lovely partner and in a drunken conversation, I have learned that he puts her first, was eager to learn what she likes so sex is mutually satisfying. Hasn't stopped the comments but I now know he doesn't mean them.

[BertramTheWalrus]

Your friend doesn't sound like he knows what he's talking about. What makes you think that he's telling the truth? He may be grossly exaggerating or even telling outright lies. Quite frankly, people who feel the need to go on about how great they are in bed are usually trying to hide their insecurity. I suppose the women he slept with faked an orgasm to get him to stop - that's what I would have done.
I don't know any women who like to be "banged hard", that doesn't mean they don't exist of course. But I suppose they're a minority!
Men enjoy foreplay as much as women in my limited experience.
You sound slightly worried by what your friend said, if he'd been talking to me I wouldn't have taken him seriously at all because his (joyless) description of sex doesn't match my experiences at all. There are enough decent men who are capable of realising what their partner enjoys in bed. They are loads of selfish and deluded ones too but I am convinced the decent ones prevail!