Secondary teachers - could you answer a discipline Q please?

[WendyWeber]

What sort of offence would get a Y10 boy suspended for 3 days in your school? And do previous offences make it more or less likely that a suspension will be the preferred punishment?

TIA

[Heated]

Extreme rudeness or defiance to a member of staff, fighting, bullying or, in my step bro's case, getting a parrot drunk.

Has something happened WW?

[SqueakyPop]

We don't have to deal with suspensions at our school.

However, I think that 3 day suspensions would result from violence or threats of violence towards staff and other pupils. Most other things would result in either a one day exclusion or an internal exclusion (where they have to work alone in school, often outside the head's office).

[MaureenMLove]

Same as Squeak in our school. It would have to be violence or threats to staff or students.

[FluffyMummy123]

Message withdrawn

[hannahsaunt]

Interesting. I was about to ask a related question. Boy at dsil's school was suspended for 2 days after throwing a stone at her in class which hit her on the head. She called the police; they said they wouldn't do anything formal but would go round to his house for a stern chat if she wanted. Doesn't really seem particularly acceptable to me - shouldn't the police have taken it further?

[Whizzz]

At ours I'd say something along the lines of major violence, threatening behaviour.
I don't think we'd look at past records, each case seems to be taken on its own & dealt with accordingly if you see what I mean.

[janeite]

Violence; extreme threatened violence; extortion; v bad vandalism (ie spray painting the head's door, rather than writing "F you" on the desk, sort of level).

For these sorts of things, past record would not be taken into account unless this was a really, really dreadful pupil that we were hoping would find another school if we kept putting pressure on and letting parents have to put up him at home for a couple of days: in that case, we'd step up the exclusion each time.

[Piffle]

ds accidentally had a craft knife in his blazer ( mad artist truly purely for art) and was suspended in yr7... 3 days withdrawn from school quiz team which reached national final first time ever for state school... Shotcselves in foot somewhat but that's neither here nor there now ( end of yr9)

[janeite]

Piffle - I think I remember reading a thread about that incident. Many schools have a totally blanket exclusion policy for "knives" of any kind.

One of my lovely, lovely Year 9 boys was helping me unpack some boxes and when I was struggling with one said "Here you are miss, let me" and got a tiny little penknife out of his pocket. I had a quiet word about not bringing it in again and then told him to go home quickly and leave it there. I would have hated him to get excluded over it.

[Piffle]

if only his art teacher, or indeed any of his teachers had spotted it first. Instead his nemesis arch enemy saw it and screamed xxxx has got a knife....
that boy since has been suspended numerous times for bullying.
the dep head who tried to "discipline" my bereft and distraught ds1 is now his mentor and friend.
good things come from bad...
but other than that I've little knowledge of other boys exclusions, ds says they're not widely talked about?

[WendyWeber]

Thanks for all your responses, which are pretty much what I thought would be the case. (Getting a parrot drunk, Heated?????)

This is a bit long, sorry...

DS2 (15) is on his 3rd suspension this year. He's at a selective grammar with a very strict code of conduct.

The first, about 6 months ago, was for 1 day, for writing something very silly in another boy's maths work book - much of it was dictated by others, but he did write it. It was then scribbled out, but not well enough, & what was visible was taken to be insulting to the daughter of a member of staff, although it was intended to be flattering, and there was also a bit about "people of the Asian persuasion" which was taken to be racist but is just a phrase that he & DS1 like because of the rhyme... (I was more annoyed that he would mess up someone else's book than by what he wrote but agreed that the suspension was a reasonable response in the hope that it would make him think & stop him being so silly again.)

Vain hope The 2nd (just before Easter) was for 3 days when he was one of a number of boys - all suspended for 1-3 days - who contributed words & doctored photos to a Bebo page "subtly" taking the piss out of one of the deputy heads. He and I had a very heavy meeting with the head & another deputy head (in which I backed them to the hilt) where expulsion was mentioned as a distinct possibly if he messed up again.

Since then his behaviour has been as impeccable as he can manage. He works hard, gets very good marks, is doing DofE Bronze & just completed the 2 expeditions, completed the Junior Sports Leader qualification & was one of the top 16 considered good enough to go out into a local primary school & take Y6 classes, and was interviewed & accepted for next year's Young Enterprise.

This week he took the prefect badge from a friend's blazer & went about for a bit with it on, after which he gave it back. No big deal but one of the lunchtime supervisors who does not like him (he does not like her...) spotted him with it & reported it to the deputy head who featured in the Bebo page. This deputy had both DS2 & the owner of the prefect badge in his office & banged on for about half an hour of lesson time, including a long talk about much his previous school loved him, & also suggested that the prefect may lose his position because of this appalling behaviour, which DS2 said he thought was ridiculous.

As they left the room & went along the corridor, DS2 said to the friend, "what a nob" & the deputy head heard him. For that he is suspended for another 3 days.

This is totally OTT, isn't it? A detention would have done? NB I have not said this to DS2, in fact he has had several tediously heavy Talks from DH & me, but we have sort of come round to thinking that the deputy head has now got it in for him (our school has always been v good at drawing a line under things before) and have said he's got to either stay out of his way or if he can't, keep it buttoned.

He & I have a meeting with the head early on Tuesday before he goes back into school & I'm just wondering if I should ask for a quick word after DS2 goes off to class to say that I think this was a bit heavy-handed & that the deputy is being vindictive - opinions please?

[Piffle]

ooh tough one
one its own wendy def over the top...
but when combined...
the more he transgressed, despite the lack of "crime"
thr harder they will come down?
ds also selective hardcore grammar

[janeite]

I think if he'd managed to have bitten back the "nob" comment, he probably would have got away with just the telling off. However, the deputy, having heard it, would then need to follow it up. Calling teachers names is such a hard one: on the one hand it sounds like a fairly little thing in the grand scheme of things but on the other hand, if you don't punish it, it will get worse.

I do however think he would be very wise to keep out of the deputy's way for a while (assuming he isn't taught by him?).

I wouldn't say anything to the head about vindictiveness or heavy-handedness but it might be wise to have a quick word without your son there and say something along the lines of "I do not expect there to be any more incidences of silly behaviour; however if there are, I wonder if perhaps they could be dealt with by HOY or yourself, rather than Mr X, as I feel that perhaps on is more likely to over-react and make things worse if Mr X is involved."

That way you suggest that there is a personality clash, without making a huge fuss about it and without denying your son's wrong-doings.

You sound like just the sort of parent I like in my HOY role - reasonable and supportive and wanting to work as a team with the school!

[janeite]

"son" not "on" sorry.

[WendyWeber]

I remember DS1's knife incident, piffle There are so many really good, kind, fair teachers in our schools, it's a shame that 1 or 2 jobsworths feel they have to throw their weight around.

[WendyWeber]

Thanks, janeite - yes, he had got away with the badge thing until that point. He isn't taught by the deputy - deputy does take a Y10 maths class but not DS2's, luckily.

I like your suggested wording - I will try to get that in if head has time (prob not though )

[Piffle]

ah wendy teachers were ok tbh, bound by rules, had to be seen to be doing The Right Thing, making an example... Possibly this is a method they are employing with your son right now.
there is always a straw to break the camels back.
but yes also always onejobsworth

[janeite]

Good luck!

[Heated]

It would have been the defiance at the end - not so much the word 'nob' - that would have got him his 3 days.

Lots of the charming rogues, I suspect, get away with it, because when busted they take it manfully on the chin, with a 'hands-up, it's a fair cop' attitude. He's surely clever enough to work that one out WW? He would have got the same at my grammar school I'm afraid (now hoping it's not the same one!).

Yep, my step-brother got 5 days exclusion for getting the hostel's parrot in the bar drunk, by feeding it the dregs of his beer when on a 6th form field trip. My father was not happy (being a senior member of staff ):he would rather the punishment fit the crime & would have sent him to clear out animal cages at the nearby animal sanctuary for a month!

[cornsilk]

He sounds just like my nephew who was always being suspended from High School mainly because he couldn't stop himself from coming out things such as 'What a nob.' My sister was at her wits end with him. He also 'clashed' with some of the teachers.

[WendyWeber]

Sympathy to your sister, cornsilk. There are a lot of these boys about

Heated, yes, he is smart enough in theory! In fact in some ways he is one of the charming rogues, they know he is honest & trustworthy & he does get a certain amount of credit by owning up & being straight with them. I'm hoping he can get through the next year - fingers & toes crossed - without crossing this particular deputy head again...(the previous incumbent is retiring this term, he was always one of the fair ones)

Trouble is that in theory he is potentially liable for a "managed transfer", which was mentioned by the head in the phone call I got on Wed, although when I said I wondered if any of the local schools would take him on if the grammar excluded him there was some back-pedalling about not wanting to do him out of his probable A*s (or not doing the school out of them...??? )

[janeite]

Yes, I wasn't reacting to the word "nob" per se; any word would have done I reckon!

The "fair cop" attitude is very true actually. Years ago we had two pupils who were caught with cannabis. One (v bad previous history) said sorry and grovelled and got another chance; the other, (less history but unhelpful parent) was more "so what" about it and got transferred elsewhere. A shame, as she would have been the one to get the higher grades.

[Elkat]

Okay, one question I would ask that I think is significant that you have not clarified...

Who was there when he called the teacher a 'nob' and how loud did he say it? It is one thing to mutter it under your breath in anger (in which case I would agree probably OTT) but it is a completely different scenario if your son was loudly calling (even if not directly to his face) the teacher a 'nob' in front of other students. The two are completely different situations imho and should be handled differently - one is letting off steam, the other is defiance / rudeness etc...

[Blandmum]

the bog standard where I work would be three days for swearing at at teacher.

so if kid goes 'Fuck off' 3 days.

Shouting 'Bitch' at a teacher whould get the same.

Walking away muttering 'bitch' under the breath would get a lunch time detention and a formal letter of apology

[Blandmum]

If it is loud enough to be heard easily then I think this is fair game.

selective grammar schools do well because they are selective and strict. To be blunt, you and ds must have gone out of your way to get into the school because of its good results etc.

the results are good because the kids are bright and because it has a tight discipline policy ( a good thing IMHO). But that will mean that things like this will be jumped on.

St Crapulous down the road might have been more forgiving, but you probably didn't want him to go there because the behaviour was poor.