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Ofqual - you can’t appeal CAGS or use mocks

(175 Posts)
noblegiraffe Thu 20-Aug-20 15:50:40

Updated info just out from Ofqual because there has been obvious confusion after last weekend.

Students will not be able to appeal on the basis that they think their CAG was unfair, and they will not be able to appeal on the basis of a higher mock grade.

Appeals will be allowed from schools only for admin errors, such as data entry errors.

If there are concerns about bias or discrimination, they should be raised with the school in the first instance.

The autumn exam series will be available for anyone unhappy with their result.

schoolsweek.co.uk/results-2020-what-you-need-to-know-about-this-years-appeals-and-autumn-resits/

OP’s posts: |
RedskyAtnight Thu 20-Aug-20 16:03:22

... and the autumn exam season isn't really a particularly good option.

Paperwork from DC's school suggests that students should think very carefully before entering for autumn exams on the basis that they have had months away from their subjects and will have to devote considerable effort to them. I can't see them being attractive to many.

We are left with inconsistent CAGs between schools. DS has a couple of grades where it's clear the school has marked strictly because they felt they had insufficient evidence to mark him up. Whilst he accepts this is fair, it's likely that different schools did it differently.

Appalling mess by the government not to have a "proper" centre based standardisation process in place.

noblegiraffe Thu 20-Aug-20 16:06:53

Appalling mess by the government not to have a "proper" centre based standardisation process in place.

They very nearly did. What they had was actually fixable but for some reason no one looked at the output on a centre-by-centre basis, or compared the output to the original CAGs and flagged up anomalies until it was too late to do anything about them.

Totally bizarre.

I’ve no idea how they would plan on marking and grading the November resits, that will be the next mess.

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JustHereWithMyPopcorn Thu 20-Aug-20 16:10:59

Why shouldn't you be able to appeal them? Especially if it's clear the school have made a mistake?

noblegiraffe Thu 20-Aug-20 16:15:19

What kind of a mistake? Admin errors can be appealed, but you can’t argue against the professional judgement of the teachers who made them.

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CountDuckulasKetchup Thu 20-Aug-20 16:19:57

Just, I'm guessing there's no appeal because there was no centralised way the cags were assigned. Plus too many would and the system will grind to a halt.

It can't be clear that a school made a mistake because every school has different mocks and other assessment data, there's no consistency even within a school for things like mock marking.

I realize it sucks but there's no way to make appeals fair - the only way of appealing is by proving discrimination or bias (dd got the same grade in every assessment in one subject since the start of y10 apart from one which was one mark away and got given the lower grade so I understand people's frustration).

Lightuptheroom Thu 20-Aug-20 16:22:18

My ds has been left with low A level marks as the teacher cited insufficient evidence as the reason not to give him a higher grade. What actually transpires is that the teacher gave more weighting to incomplete classwork and homework than they did to coursework and previous mock grades. They actually ignored non exam assessments completely This probably means that we can't appeal as we would need to show an error. Thanks to one particular teacher deciding how to weight this he has lost his firm university place, that's why it's a complete mess.

FAQs Thu 20-Aug-20 16:24:07

So have the examining bodies looked at the evidence submitted with the grades?

My daughter graded an 8 in mock And throughout year 10/11 but was awarded a 6! Under the above criteria we can’t appeal!

A friends daughter achieved a 3 in maths mock and really struggled but they were shocked to find she was awarded an 8 (private school)

noblegiraffe Thu 20-Aug-20 16:25:59

There wasn’t any evidence submitted with the grades.

OP’s posts: |
noblegiraffe Thu 20-Aug-20 16:26:49

I’ve heard of a couple of other really weird maths results (one going from a 1 to an 8 - the school is going to appeal to have it lowered I think!)

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FrenchItalian Thu 20-Aug-20 16:28:38

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

MrsHamlet Thu 20-Aug-20 16:32:43

The November series will likely run as a normal series. My subject always has a small entry in November which covers the full range of ability, and is marked by normal examiners.

Lightuptheroom Thu 20-Aug-20 16:40:44

@FrenchItalian I do get that, in ds case there were some very mitigating circumstances, he also proved that when it came to exams he was more than capable of pulling it out of the bag, as he did other external exams at the same level to achieve scholarahips to uni, so in his case a realistic prediction of what he would have achieved in the exam could be evidenced , where i accept for some students this would be virtually impossible. We would need to prove bias or discrimination to get them changed, which is quite difficult if a school has previously been supportive of individual circumstances and then an individual teacher has effectively ignored that when awarding the grades. However, by tightening the appeals it does mean that schools will have to look at individual cases more closely, so it may also be a good thing

lifeafter50 Thu 20-Aug-20 16:50:58

when it came to exams he was more than capable of pulling it out of the bag
Well here's a useful lesson to him that in real life this is a poor strategy and not going to be effective in a career or impress an employer.

LyraLilly Thu 20-Aug-20 17:07:01

Thanks for this @noblegiraffe although it's not welcome news for us.

DD is largely happy with her results apart from one.. she got an 8 in her mock, 6's and 7's in class work and previous tests and has been awarded a 5 hmm. I've asked the school for an explanation but no response as yet. Her school is useless tbh and were found to be Inadequate across the board by OFSTED just before Christmas. I doubt they'll admit to any admin error ( if that's the case) so it looks like she's stuck.

In the grand scheme of things it won't matter as she's been accepted for an a level in the subject but it's her favourite and best subject and she's gutted.

LyraLilly Thu 20-Aug-20 17:21:01

Appalling mess by the government not to have a "proper" centre based standardisation process in place.

Agree wholeheartedly with this. It would have been such an easy fix. I'd be very interested to see the data for dd's year vs previous P8 scores... DD has been marked down on this one subject and the others seem largely fair, same as or a grade above her mocks. Others have had significant increases on their mock and class grades. Their KS2 data seems to have had an impact on the final grades awarded, dd's predicted grade in y7 for her subject was 5, she was working to 6/7 and was awarded 5. Her two friends were working to a similar level but had been predicted 8s. One got 8 and one got 6. Really not sure what to make of it all really.

CurlyhairedAssassin Thu 20-Aug-20 17:32:51

THere are so many anomalies, it just feels it has all been rushed out, with no moderation or checking of evidence whatsoever. Schools local to me have had very varying and unusual results. Lots of cases of doing well in mocks but getting downgraded by the school too. From a breakdown I have seen from one school, if lots of schools have behaved the same way, then many CAGs were higher than their students' mocks so it makes a bit of a mockery of the stipulation that it had to be evidence-based. My guess is that many schools suspected that the Ofqual algorithm would be unfair so bumped up the CAGs in advance just in case, or given students the benefit of the doubt that they would have done much better than their mocks in the real thing. So for those schools, their results will seem good. For others, who have played by the rules and been quite strict with the way they assigned CAGS, maybe for fear of being singled out by Ofqual and having the whole cohort's CAGs downgraded, there are seemingly many disappointed students. Students who can't progress to their own school's 6th form because their teachers were too strict with their CAGs, while pupils from other schools who seemingly did better because of grade inflation, have in effect taken their place. I fear it will soon become apparent in the new term that some of these students will struggle at the more academic 6th forms.

CurlyhairedAssassin Thu 20-Aug-20 17:35:12

@lifeafter50 Well, kids can't all be perfect Peters. Boys, particularly, tend to mature and knuckle down a bit later. Many pull their socks up after getting a shock in their mock results, and do brilliantly in the real things. For years this has been ok. This year, through no fault of their own, it hasn't been possible. It's harshest ever lesson and you need to have some sympathy rather than being so judgemental.

isthereanameforme Thu 20-Aug-20 17:40:33

My DD didn't pass Maths and was due to do a L3 course in college where she was told that if she didn't pass maths she could still do the course and re-do her maths at the same time.
I've been emailing college today and they've now said that she'll have to do L2 for a year and re-do maths
The rest of her grades were good passes and in line where we thought she would be and I've emailed school too as there was a difference between her actual grade and her target.

Lightuptheroom Thu 20-Aug-20 17:55:31

A crystal ball would have been useful, his school locked down before the national date

noblegiraffe Thu 20-Aug-20 17:57:32

where she was told that if she didn't pass maths she could still do the course and re-do her maths at the same time.

Have you got that in writing? I’m not sure they can amend their entry criteria.

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MrsSpenserGregson Thu 20-Aug-20 18:06:34

CurlyhairedAssassin

THere are so many anomalies, it just feels it has all been rushed out, with no moderation or checking of evidence whatsoever. Schools local to me have had very varying and unusual results. Lots of cases of doing well in mocks but getting downgraded by the school too. From a breakdown I have seen from one school, if lots of schools have behaved the same way, then many CAGs were higher than their students' mocks so it makes a bit of a mockery of the stipulation that it had to be evidence-based. My guess is that many schools suspected that the Ofqual algorithm would be unfair so bumped up the CAGs in advance just in case, or given students the benefit of the doubt that they would have done much better than their mocks in the real thing. So for those schools, their results will seem good. For others, who have played by the rules and been quite strict with the way they assigned CAGS, maybe for fear of being singled out by Ofqual and having the whole cohort's CAGs downgraded, there are seemingly many disappointed students. Students who can't progress to their own school's 6th form because their teachers were too strict with their CAGs, while pupils from other schools who seemingly did better because of grade inflation, have in effect taken their place. I fear it will soon become apparent in the new term that some of these students will struggle at the more academic 6th forms.

This sums it up so well, and it's exactly the position my DS is in. In 3 subjects his CAGs are lower than both his mocks and the predicted grades he was given in February .... His (comprehensive) school has definitely played by the rules and not marked people up. Consequently there are a lot of upset students who may well not get into the sixth form, but in our case they are losing out to pupils transferring over from the local selective grammar school whose CAGs, of course, are higher.... (My DS has got into the sixth form thankfully but his grades are perplexing to say the least).

Part of me wonders if the school has done this deliberately, knowing that they will have a large intake of ex-selective school pupils at 6th form, and therefore a better chance of scoring highly in the league tables in 2 years' time when they take their A Levels.

Or maybe I need to lie down....

noblegiraffe Thu 20-Aug-20 18:11:23

Part of me wonders if the school has done this deliberately

Schools didn’t know that students would ever even see CAGs let alone be awarded them!

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Snailsetssail Thu 20-Aug-20 18:16:04

noblegiraffe

^Part of me wonders if the school has done this deliberately^

Schools didn’t know that students would ever even see CAGs let alone be awarded them!

Which is exactly why I think the whole cock up over backtracking the algorithm was actually planned.

If teachers knew students were going to see the grades then bias could have occurred more easily. Letting them think the grades would be moderated and applied to the algorithm was all a big merry dance!

isthereanameforme Thu 20-Aug-20 18:16:54

@noblegiraffe I’m going to check through the bits she had from open day. She’s so disheartened at the moment even though she did well in the other grades

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