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Changing forms in yr7

(18 Posts)
Lionsblanket Mon 24-Feb-20 17:44:47

Is it difficult for children to change forms in secondary school? I know it’s varies but would like to see if it’s possible in some schools.

My DD is struggling with another girl in her class. They both have ASD and are sharing a TA which is causing resentment between them both. I think they now need to be in different forms and the feelings between them has gone beyond repair and they just wind each other up merely by their presence.

The school is 10 form entry, so it’s a large school with spaces.

OP’s posts: |
RedskyAtnight Mon 24-Feb-20 17:51:33

DC's school has moved students between forms where there is a particularly bad mismatch of personalities. They normally try to make it work first though (particularly as a child might move and then not get on with another child in the new class).

In your case though, if DD and the other girl share a TA, don't they have to be in the same class for this to work on a practical basis?

Lionsblanket Mon 24-Feb-20 17:59:29

Redsky. Good to know it’s possible.

The two girls share a TA but one gets funding for a full time 1-1, the other doesn’t get funding but needs it. Both need it but sharing isn’t working as one in particular escalates their behaviour to get the TAs attention. Neither is getting the help they need.

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monkeypigsysandy Mon 24-Feb-20 18:17:56

Is there another available TA for the other class ?

TeenPlusTwenties Mon 24-Feb-20 18:18:48

The potentially less disruptive improvement would be for the parent of the child with the funding to make a fuss about the TA being shared?

The problem with moving is that will likely mean a whole load of new teachers to get to know and new kids in lessons too.

AGoodPodcastAndANiceCupOfTea Mon 24-Feb-20 18:23:41

The 1:1 is being paid to be the assistant for a particular child so that person shouldn't be being used for anyone else at all - the cold is losing something that she has been defined as needing and in this case it would be best to separate the two pupils so that one isn't taken the other one's support worker. It is up the parents of the the other child to find a solution that suits their child without it being at a cost to another one.

Lionsblanket Mon 24-Feb-20 18:30:11

I don’t know if they would have other TAs available. I only know they won’t have two TAs in one class even if there are more than one with a need which is why we have ended up in this situation.

Both children work really well with the TA when the other isn’t there. With the TA there they are both in and out of the class (due to anxiety) as they aren’t getting the help they need, same as when there is no TA. I’m sure it also pissing off the other children in the class.

I agree moving will be disruptive - it’s something I suggested a while a go and so did DD but the staff want to keep the girls together do make it easier for them.

OP’s posts: |
AGoodPodcastAndANiceCupOfTea Mon 24-Feb-20 19:27:15

If a child has funding for a 1:1 the school has to allow it and if they don't want 2 TAs on one class it would be easily solved in a big school by putting them in different forms and classes.
You say that sharing the TA works but it clearly doesn't given that at least one of the children dislikes sharing the TA and plays up to get the attention of the TA. You are being very vague about which child is yours but I assume that your child is the one who needs a TA but doesn't have one - is this the situation? If not why one earth affect you demanding to know why the 1:1, for your child is being used to support another child?

If it is the child who has a full-time 1:1 funded who is playing up when she has to share said 1:1 then she isn't' playing up' but rather demonstrating exactly why she needs a full time 1:1. If the other child needs a TA it cannot be at the expense of another child who has got one because they need it.

Lionsblanket Mon 24-Feb-20 19:48:02

I said that it doesn’t work when they share the TA - that the issue.

My DD gets the funding, we spent a long time trying to get the right support for her and she’s had a 1-1 for a few years as well an EHCP. I have complained numerous times (and will continue to do so) about the shared support and things have got a bit better in that they prioritise my DD but she’s still not getting the full amount of support she needs. DD isn’t going to get the support unless they either separate the girls or provide them both with 1-1s.

OP’s posts: |
Malmontar Mon 24-Feb-20 23:03:36

The other child needing help and not having funding is not your problem though. You need to kick up a bigger fuss because it's not on. They need to provide the right support for your daughter and they are breaking the law doing this.
This happens a lot unfortunately in SEN. We fought for our DD to get SALT sessions and found out weeks in that they'd stuck another child in DDs sessions. When I asked for that to stop they explained the girl needs the sessions and without her joining DDs there's no funding for her to have any. They even tried to explain that DD does better with another child even though she complained about this girl after every session. Without sounding like a heartless wrench, thats not my problem.
Please meet with them asap and write letters to the council send team, make complaints/whatever you need.

Foxyloxy1plus1 Tue 25-Feb-20 17:57:55

1- 1 funding doesn’t have to mean one person. In secondary school, there will be a time when the school will be trying to build independence and the TA will be stepping back a bit more.

If there’s really a clash, it’s possible to move forms, but it will also depend on the timetable and the availability of other support staff.

Malmontar Tue 25-Feb-20 18:07:49

But 1:1 does mean one person. That's the whole point of securing a 1:1. What is your understanding of 1:1 in that case? It is extremely difficult to do and this sort of situation happens to a lot of parents with kids who have funding for a 1:1.

Yes, they will try to build independence but not from the beginning and not when something is clearly not working. Independence is often gradually introduced in Y8 and onwards by for eg having one lesson with TA, next lesson without etc. I wouldn't be surprised if they'd put the other child in her form so they could share the TA.

Giroscoper Tue 25-Feb-20 20:34:28

Have you posted about this on the SEN board? Just because other parents of children with ECHPs that state the need for a 1:1 TA in secondary may know how to escalate this so that they are not sharing your DD's 1:1 TA with another child.

Of course the school want to keep them together it benefits them, however it does not benefit your daughter. The whole reason for the EHCP is to lay out what your DD's needs are and how the school will meet them.

Malmontar Tue 25-Feb-20 20:50:20

Yes and I would change the title of this thread as changing form isn't the real problem.

10brokengreenbottles Wed 26-Feb-20 09:59:29

Is 1:1 specific and quantified in section F? No woolly "access to" or "or equivalent."

If it is specific and quantified complain to the school and LA. The LA are ultimately responsible for ensuring your DD receives the provision in section F. IPSEA have a model letter you can use. If complaining doesn't work threaten Judicial Review for failure to provide the provision in section F. Usually the threat of JR is enough, but if not you will need someone to send a pre action letter - SOSSEN help with these.

Unfortunately, if the EHCP isn't specific and quantified you can't enforce the provision.

AGoodPodcastAndANiceCupOfTea Wed 26-Feb-20 20:15:41

You need to demand that your daughter isn't sharing her 1:1 - you worked hard to devote the funding and it is her right to have it. Of course it makes it easier for the school for another cold to use the 1:1 but this then means that your daughter is getting a 2:1 and this is not what was agreed and is legally her right. Can you speak to the 1:1 and ask them to refuse to support the other child given that this really isn't their role? Schools will often try to use help in the way that suits them best but in this case that is to the detriment of your daughter. I'm afraid that sometimes you have to be 'that parent' to get your child what they need - give even an inch and the system will take a mile! If o were you I'd arrange a meeting with the head ASAP, use the system that a pp suggested who is better versed in the U.K. system than me t I'd also threaten to involve the governors and the LEA. The school won't want that!

Lionsblanket Thu 27-Feb-20 10:05:14

Thanks for all the support. It’s good to hear that others agree sharing support is not right.

You are right 10broken DDs EHCP is woolly.
I have sent an email to school stating that the girls being in the same form isn’t working and am waiting to hear back from deputy head. I have also found a solicitor to read DDs draft EHCP to ensure that it’s actually meaningful and to get her 1-1 hours written into provision as currently her hours are awarded separately to the EHCP via higher needs funding.

OP’s posts: |
10brokengreenbottles Thu 27-Feb-20 20:18:44

Ah another unlawful EHCP. I would focus on making it specific and quantified, then it is enforceable. Make sure the solicitor is an education specialist. SOS SEN read EHCPs, and you could try to get a phone appt with IPSEA.

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