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Attainment of prior high achievers

(13 Posts)
Westcoastlover Sat 03-Aug-19 11:07:31

Looking at secondary schools, is it a cause for concern if only 65% of prior high attainers achieved grade 5+ in English and Maths (98% of these pupils scored grade 4+) This is our catchment school and it has mixed ability for maths up to year 9 and for all years in English. Thank you for any opinions you may have.

OP’s posts: |
JoJoSM2 Sat 03-Aug-19 12:16:27

I’m not sure on the exact stats so perhaps you could compare to other schools in the wider area that have high progress scores?

On the face of it, it sounds very poor to me as GCSE grades 4 and 5 are widely achievable to children with CAT scores of 100 (so average ability). I’d imagine high strainers to be higher ability so I’d expect higher grades. For kids with CATS at the level of 115, you’d expect 95%+ to get grades 5+ (on average in a state school).

noblegiraffe Sat 03-Aug-19 12:33:35

High prior attainer means level 5+ in KS2 SATs, nothing to do with CATs.

That is quite low, I’d expect a good school to be in the 70s or 80s.

I’d be dubious about mixed ability maths to Y9 for a bright kid.

stubiff Sat 03-Aug-19 13:35:36

National average for high prior attainers for that measure is 77.6%.
As suggested, look at other schools in the area as that figure may be good for the area.

Coincidently, following my offer in another thread I’m looking at this measure, amongst others, as part of ‘will a bright child do well at any school’, so if you give me a few days I may be able to shed more general light on it.
If this is a genuine ‘choice’ you have and want help with the data then PM me.

JoJoSM2 Sat 03-Aug-19 15:03:55

OP, as I love a good set of numbers, I’ve checked the results for my LA (grammar area) for high prior attainers.
Grammars: 100% (but extra able intake)
Good comps: 84-88%
Average comp: 81%
Shocker of a school (worst in the LA by far): 55%

TeenTimesTwo Sat 03-Aug-19 16:58:43

Our good comp in all comp area is 84%.

OP - is your school in a grammar area where by the 'best' high prior attainers have been creamed off, thus leaving only the 'just scraped into' high prior attainers?

PostNotInHaste Sat 03-Aug-19 17:44:33

Personally I’d avoid the mixed sets like the plague but am sure others will disagree. DS’s upper school did this in year 9 to start with and it was a complete disaster though they wouldn’t admit it. There was a change of approach after the Christmas holidays which was far from perfect but an improvement.

Westcoastlover Sat 03-Aug-19 21:00:16

Thank you everyone for your replies. I am very suspicious of whether mixed ability classes can truly benefit the higher pupils and would suspect that this is one reason why their pass rate is 65%. Yes it is in a grammar school area, my son got greater depth in his SATs but didn't quite score high enough to get into the Grammar. Hopefully, with our support, he will be okay. It is the best out of our options so we have to go with it. Thanks again.

OP’s posts: |
TeenTimesTwo Sat 03-Aug-19 21:08:59

If it is in a grammar area then I would think that could make quite a difference.

I don't know the figures for the new SATs, but for the sake of argument lets say 110 is the figure for 'high achiever'.
One could imagine that 90% of those getting into grammar would be at 110+. However I could also imagine that actually 99% of the 115+ will have got into grammar, and say 50% of the 110-115.

So that leaves only a tiny few at the comp/secondary modern who got 115+, so their higher achievers are the lower high achievers, iyswim?

Thus it is much less surprising that their 5+ English&Maths rate is much lower.

noblegiraffe Sat 03-Aug-19 21:22:58

What is their Progress 8 for high attainers? That will take into account a more finely tuned view of their SATs results.

If their high attainers just scraped level 5s, Progress 8 will compare them against other students who just scraped level 5s, rather than the high-scoring grammar school types.

Westcoastlover Sat 03-Aug-19 22:40:54

Thank you for your further replies. Their p8 for high achievers is -0.11?

OP’s posts: |
JoJoSM2 Sun 04-Aug-19 07:45:29

That’s average so not wow but not too bad.

ShrodingersRat Sun 04-Aug-19 21:30:25

I suspect the Grammar area effect as identified by a PP is at play.

The highest attaining high attainers will be at the Grammar so the average for the remaining high attainers will be lower than if they all
Stayed at the same school.

The average doesn’t tell you how your child will do.

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