Talk

Advanced search

What would a EHCP mean at secondary?

(33 Posts)
LooLaaToo Mon 10-Sep-18 06:32:12

I know at primary the kids who have EHCPs seem to have one to one TAs. I don't believe this happens at secondary. I understand this gives the school extra funding but does anyone know what happens at secondary school?

OP’s posts: |
MercyGentry Mon 10-Sep-18 07:16:36

It would totally depend on what support was specified in that individual ehcp. Each one is different. Not all EHCPs have 1:2:1 even at primary. In fact I think the majority don’t.

Sirzy Mon 10-Sep-18 07:20:46

As with primary it will depend on the needs of the individual.

EHCP doesn’t mean automatic 1-1 at any level.

TeenTimesTwo Mon 10-Sep-18 08:47:20

Some children at secondary have 1-1

LooLaaToo Mon 10-Sep-18 09:03:33

Thank you. I guess the only ones i know about at DS primary have 1 to 1 TAs. I'm just asking as my son is in year 6 and I'm thinking about applying for an EHCP. The SENCO said it wouldn't benefit him at primary as it takes so long to get and she wasn't sure what benefit it would have for secondary. We are having an Ed psych assessment done at the end of the month so I presume they will advise if a EHCP is necessary.

OP’s posts: |
ArtfulPuss Mon 10-Sep-18 10:49:26

My eldest got his EHCP in Y6, after we started the process in Y4. He has ASD. He never had (and doesn't need) 1–1, but what it meant in our case at secondary was that the head of SENCO came out to meet him at primary before he started, that he was on their radar, and that when he had a really hard time (severe panic attacks, school refusal) in the second term of Y7 they understood the issues and were ready to respond immediately. He was assigned a support worker and had a safe space to go to within school. He's now in Y9 and hasn't needed to access student support services for over a year... but he knows they're there for him if/when he does in the future.
Good luck! I hope you get whatever support your son needs.

MercyGentry Mon 10-Sep-18 13:13:12

Schools usually don’t want to apply for EHCPs, it’s a lot of work for them and generally they have to find part of the provision which they don’t want to do. I would be very sceptical about anything the senco tells you.

MercyGentry Mon 10-Sep-18 13:13:32

FUND part of the provision

MercyGentry Mon 10-Sep-18 13:15:21

Also if the EP assessment is by an EP working for the local authority, remember they are paid by the LA, who don’t want to spend money on provision so generally won’t recommend much, if any, support.
If it’s a private EP report that should give you a much better idea of what is going on.

DeloresJaneUmbridge Mon 10-Sep-18 13:18:55

Check out any secondary school very carefully. Meet the SENCO and listen to how they talk about your child’s needs. If they sound negative in any way then cross the school off your list. You want proactive and supportive SENCO staff.not those who will pay lip service only, just from bitter experience,

Lougle Mon 10-Sep-18 13:42:09

Schools have to fund the first £6000 of any provision from their SEN notional block funding. If they need further funds, they can apply to the High Needs block for Top Up funding, if there are more children who require support than their notional SEN funding will cover.

EHCPs are intended to cover the needs of children/young people with significant needs that can't be met from notional funds and the guidance is £10,000 (£6,000 notional SEN plus £4,000 average weigthed pupil unit funding), or pupils with unusual needs (e.g. specific equipment that's hard to source such as hearing impairment devices, augmentative communication devices, etc.). Also, children who attend special schools will always have EHCPs.

Most children with 'normal' SENs should be able to be catered for without an EHCP. I was very skeptical about this, as DD1 has an EHCP. But to give an example, DD2 is awaiting ASD assessment, and she is having some secondary school transition teething issues. I have emailed the school and dropped into see the tutor and SENCO at a consultation evening. They've arranged for her to be able to check in with them whenever she's worried, and to visit the SENCO once weekly and spend time with her and the school dog to go over her worry list. That's being put in place immediately. No EHCP. Just because it's what's needed.

Foxyloxy1plus1 Mon 10-Sep-18 15:45:42

I think it’s very unfair to suggest schools don’t want to apply for an EHCP because it’s a lot of work. Schools want to do the best for their students and if they feel it’s justified and have worked on a number of strategies with the student and have taken and acted on advice from relevant professionals, then if it isn’t making the difference they hope, they will certainly apply for an EHCP.

In fact, if the monitoring and review process has been effective, it won’t be too much work, because the evidence will already be there.

Lougle is absolutely right tha the school must fund provision initially and that sometimes, very small adjustments can make a difference. For example, as a SENCo, I used to open my department at break and lunchtime, so anyone who needed a safe space and didn’t like the playground, could eat lunch there. There were often about 15-20 students.

I think it’s also wrong to suggest that a private EP report will carry more weight. In my experience, the opposite is true, because panels will look at EP recommendations offered to the school and whether the school has implemented and reviewed them. A private EP report is commissioned by parents, not school and the school will not necessarily be able to, or have to comply with it.

MercyGentry Mon 10-Sep-18 16:01:40

Foxyloxyplus1 that is your experience and if you are a good senco that helps the kids at your school that is great.

My experience and the experience of the SEN parents I know is that;
Schools are incredibly reluctant to apply for EHCPs.
Council EPs don’t recommend support that would cost any money.
I am aware that school will most likely ignore a private EP report, but tribunal won’t and it will give you a much clearer picture of your child’s needs.

Lougle Mon 10-Sep-18 18:13:04

I agree, MercyGentry but I do also think it's gone a bit far the other way, with every parent with a child with SEN being recommend to push for EP, push for EHCP, push for recognition, push for this that and the other, and I do think there has to be some sort of understanding that the general SEN provision was intended to cater for the {rough figures} 20% or so of children who had some sort of additional need, whether that be extremely minor or quite significant. The statement was intended to cater for the 10% of those children (so 2% overall) whose needs were so severe that without such provision, they would not make adequate progress.

That message has been lost somewhere, about the significance and rarity of an EHCP. It shouldn't be needed for your every day needs. It shouldn't be needed to give a bit of emotional support, help Johnny with flexibility in the classroom. It shouldn't be needed to stop the teacher expecting Jane to understand 3 commands at once, or to give Fred extra time to pack his bags and get out to the bus. An EHCP shouldn't be required to let Lucy have some time with the school dog to process her week, or Michael have extra support in maths. That's all freely available within the notional funding that schools have. It's all good practice. But an EHCP probably would be needed to give Sam a hearing loop and a teaching assistant, with regular sessions from a teacher for the deaf, resources to make sure lessons are accessible, etc.

LooLaaToo Mon 10-Sep-18 22:59:57

Thank you all. I don't want to say too much but suffice to say, my experience has been the school are keen to do as little as possible to help my son. Reluctant doesn't even begin to cover it.

OP’s posts: |
MercyGentry Tue 11-Sep-18 06:19:33

@lougle I agree, but I suspect a lot of it is because schools have stopped doing those ‘basic’ things.

Certainly that’s my experience with primary school, though I am hearing that secondary schools are better at putting in the little things that don’t cost a lot but can make a huge difference.

With primary school my son had no support at all, school refused to believe he needed any additional support, after two years of appeals he ended up in specialist provision!

That’s how big the gap was. I strongly suspect it’s because schools just don’t have the budget, even for the little things, but it means more parents going for EHCPS and more stress and expense for everyone.

BackforGood Wed 12-Sep-18 00:13:58

One of the main advantages of having an EHCP as you head to secondary, is the admissions criteria meaning you get higher priority to get in to the school that you feel will meet your dc's needs. However, you have left it too late for that.

Secondaries are so much bigger, and of course set up so your dc will have several teacher in one day (could be up to 5). Of course, this means the teachers have to teach so many more pupils in one day. Subjects like RE, or Music might end up teaching everyone in the year, across a fortnightly timetable. That is a lot of people to try to get to know, and it gives them very little time to get to know them (compared with a Primary teacher who would commonly teach one class all day, for 4.5 days a week). There will be systems in secondary schools which 'flag up' children who need more than the average differentiation. Having an EHCP is going to be an easy identifier.
Now, it will vary school to school and subject to subject and individual teacher to individual teacher, what happens next, in terms of provision and differentiation, but there is a legal contract (the EHCP) which states what MUST be provided, and that makes it a lot clearer than a note saying 'LooLaaToo's Mum say we ought to do this, or that for him'.

Oh, and I've never come across a child with a FT 1:1 TA in Primary.
there are also TAs in secondary to support some dcs' learning.

EdPsy Wed 12-Sep-18 00:19:00

@MercyGentry

That is absolutely untrue.

Fanjango Wed 12-Sep-18 00:27:14

If your child may benefit from adjustments or therapeutic approaches then definitely seek ehcp prior to seniors. My sons did nothing when I explained the situation as he was going through diagnosis and struggling with major anxiety and sensory issues. Placement failed on day 3. A year of missed school, outreach tutors and finally new placement. If there's any reason a child may need one in primary it often means they will really need one in seniors or they simply don't help. I know others will say different but lots of seniors won't even make simple, reasonable adjustments without being forced.

cakesandtea Wed 12-Sep-18 01:08:23

a bit of emotional support, help Johnny with flexibility in the classroom
That’s rarer than gold dust and probably more difficult to get through tribunal than ABA. I ‘ve never seen this on ASD specialist teacher reports, even though it seem to be the obvious and first thing to put in place for ASD.

Gersemi Wed 12-Sep-18 01:32:36

It should not take more than 20 weeks for the EHCP process, but that can be extended if they refuse to assess or refuse to issue, in which case you would need to appeal; also some LAs are very bad at sticking to time limits.

Some schools, particularly secondaries, tell parents that they don't have 1:1 support. That is nonsense - if the EHCP specifies that a child must have 1:1 support then they have to have it and the school has no choice in the matter.

bumblingbovine49 Wed 12-Sep-18 02:42:29

The reason it is a good idea to get an EHCP before secondary is that those with an EHCP who name a school on the plan must be accepted by that school.

This means if you find a mainstream school , that you believe would better suit your child than the local one they would normally attend, they have to accept you. This is not the same if you are choosing a special school but it does apply for mainstream ones.

Think of the EHCP as an opportunity for you to choose the best mainstream school for your child regardless of catchment, rather than a way of ensuring a (possibly unwilling) school provides support

Find a school that is near enough to go to that will provide the best support and use the EHCP to make sure you can get in there, in case it is not your local catchment school

Oftenbest SEN support is given by schools that are not 'outstanding'. Most outstanding schools are like that because they have a high exclusion rate

You need a good school with good results but low exclusion rates and a convincing SENCO and SEN policy. Schools get good at dealing with SEN by - dealing with enough if it.


You may have to fund transport if the school you want is far away but the school can't turn down your application.

Looked after children and children with EHCPs have top priority in school applications

bumblingbovine49 Wed 12-Sep-18 02:53:52

There are schools that are good with SEN support (DS has had mostly good support and sometimes excellent help in both primary and secondary) though I admit they are getting more rare . They just tend to be the more rough around the edges schools that a lot of parents turn their noses up at, despite them usually having reasonable to good academic results as well as better SEN provision .

DSs primary school applied for DS's EHCP (then statement) because their interventions were not as effective as they wanted them to be and they thought it would help DS

They weren't absolutely brilliant but they were pretty good and I am still grateful that they applied for the statement as it has definitely meant that the secondary school DS goes to, has provided lots of accommodations above and beyond what is already a pretty good provision to meet his EHCP

MercyGentry Wed 12-Sep-18 06:26:38

@EsPsy

I presume you are talking about my comments on LA EPs!

That is absolutely my experience. The private EP recommended a specialist setting, something the NHS psychologist also recommended and what we ended up with at tribunal.

The LA EPs report wasn’t specified or quantified, it didn’t actually say my son needed any specific support but made vague statements like ‘school may want to consider Lego play therapy at some point.’

The LA EP apparently managed to completely miss his anxiety that every other professional including NHS, not just private, saw and was the main reason we won at tribunal and he is now in specialist provision.

I know many other people with similar experiences, but that is my personal experience with LA EPs and it was not good.

newdaylight Wed 12-Sep-18 06:34:34

My experience, and I would be wary of this OP if your child genuinely needs an EHCP, is that the need for them sometimes becomes more apparent in secondary school. Primary schools sometimes are able to manage without an ECHO but if the child has significant support needs but goes into Year 7 without these needs being recognised by an ECHP then it can spell a really difficult period of time for the child.

I worked with 1 kid for whom it took 2 years to get an ECHO finally in place, during which he was being provided mostly with an hour per day 1:1 tuition in local libraries because none of the provisions available without an assessed need through an ECHP could cope with his needs.

Turns out the primary school were putting loads of extra support in place to help him manage but hadn't thought to provide this as evidence towards an EHCP prior to his going to secondary school.

Join the discussion

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

Join Mumsnet

Already have a Mumsnet account? Log in