Changing schools for sixth form.

[FiveHoursSleep]

Our eldest daughter wants to change schools for sixth form next year. Her school is a good one, and it gets good results, but she says she hates it. She says the teachers are annoying and the standard of teaching is bad, there have been some staff changes lately but I have no concerns about the standard of teaching.
She is predicted to do well in GCSEs ( 7s and 8s with the mention of a possible 9 or two, but no one is willing to commit to that yet) but is very anxious with her exams being only months away now.
She wants to do 'something medical' as a career and is looking and Biology and Chemistry ( +?) for 6th form. The school she is at has good science teachers and will have a brand new 6th form centre for her Y12.
DH and I don't really want her to move as we know the school but if she really wants to move, we feel she should have some choice in the matter. So we are going to look at 6th forms with her but won't let her move to one that gets worse results than her school.
The ones we have found are all twice the distance away than her present school, so 1 hour commute vs 30 minutes ( or less if I drive them to the station).
Some of her friends are staying, others are leaving to go to specialist schools- art, performing arts, media etc.
Can anyone give us some advice in what to look for in a sixth form? I'm just worried it's Y11 she hates, not the school, and she'll find herself isolated and miserable in a school where she knows no one.

[catslife]

There is another thread about what to look for in a sixth form here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/education/3037672-Sixth-form-questions.
For medical sciences, you usually need both Biology and Chemistry.
It depends on what you consider to be a Good school and good teaching - pupils may have a different idea to OFSTED inspectors or parents on this one.
But in general would look for a sixth form with Good overall results and where the teaching staff are able to engage with the pupils as well. It may be that after looking round some of the alternatives she decides that she's better off where she is now anyway.

[hertsandessex]

If she is currently at a good school beware of the grass is greener syndrome. My DD has gone in year 12 and many of her friends left. Several has since come back after couple of weeks elsewhere and some others want to but can't. The good thing is she can apply elsewhere, hopefully get a place and then leave the final decision until the last minute after GCSE results. Sixth form applications are much more flexible than year 7.

[MumTryingHerBest]

I'm not sure if I'm confusing you with someone else in which case some of this may not make sense but just in case...

Would the boys school be an option for 6th form?

Have you considered sixth form college as an option? I know there is a certain 6th form college that a number of DCs from the boys school have moved to that could be worth you considering.

Bear in mind that a new head may mean more changes. In light of this it is worth exploring all available options at this point.

Have you posted in your region on here?:

www.elevenplusexams.co.uk

or here:

www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/11plus/viewforum.php?f=57

[FiveHoursSleep]

hertsandessex
This is exactly what I'm worrying about, that she will regret leaving and then will spend time trying to adjust to a new 6th form and fit in, that could be spent studying.
I'm afraid I've made it very clear that I will not be able to help her get to and from school, or bring in forgotten stuff as my first priority will be my younger kids. She's accusing me of not wanting her to be happy but that's not true at all.
Thanks catslife I will look at that link.

[FiveHoursSleep]

Thanks Mum. I think you know where she is, but I don't think the boys school is coed for 6th form, are they? Are you talking about WHC for the 6th form college?
The new head has left and we have a ( very good) acting Head, I'm not too worried about that.

[hertsandessex]

I would just go through the motions of looking at and even applying to other schools and just try to be supportive but tell her to keep her options open. Year 11 is a tough year and her views may well change. As I said luckily can put off a final decision until the last minute.

[MumTryingHerBest]

Are you talking about WHC for the 6th form college?

No St Dom.

I'm not sure if they are coed (I'm a long way off that stage) but it could be worth asking just in case.

Have you had a look on here (search school names etc. in the forums):

www.thestudentroom.co.uk/content.php?r=3437-a-levels

I know there is a lot of movement for 6th form at all the schools in the area so I think it would be a good idea to have a good look around to see what is on offer.

I know a DD in yr 13 and she said a fair number left after GCSEs and many had not even mentioned the fact that they were intending to leave. They also said that there was a lot of movement in the first couple of terms of yr 12 too which, combined with a couple of teachers leaving, was quite unsettling.

Have you also looked into the privates as there is a fair amount of movement between state and private at this stage too.

[MumTryingHerBest]

Will just wanted to add:

Check out the progress 8 score in the 16-18 tab.

Look at the AAB or higher in at least 2 facilitating subjects.

Look at the full list of A level grades broken down by each subject (this is already on your DDs school site, I you might need to contact some of the other schools for this though).

[MumTryingHerBest]

Check out the progress 8 score in the 16-18 tab.

Sorry, forgot the link:
www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/find-a-school-in-england

[Witchend]

My oldest has just changed schools to a 6th form college.

This time last year she was adamant she was staying on, and I only persuaded her to look round and apply as a back up. She only started preferring the 6th form around Easter and wasn't totally sure until she'd got her results, but, despite hating decisions, she was certain by then.
So she may change her mind.

I wouldn't go at it with "I can't help you because I'm dealing with the younger ones". That sounds firstly as though you don't care about her in comparison (yes, I know exactly where you're coming at it from, but it's very direct) and secondly it does sound like you want to object all the way, which, as we all know with a stroppy teen, is exactly the way to make them dig their heels in.

What I'd do is go and look round the other schools that are possible. When you've been round then talk about it as an adult conversation. Not "I prefer this" but "What exactly is good and bad about each?" In that bring up how can you get there? It may be that there's a perfectly good bus/train. So you can say "you realise that will add 40 minutes onto your school day" and that can go down as a disadvantage.

Then make a choice but, if possible, if she chooses elsewhere, make sure her old school is still open to her.

I was the opposite to your dd. I wanted to stay and I ended up moving. I still don't know if it was worth it. I got to where I wanted to get to, and I'm not sure I would have in the old school. But my friends stayed on, and I missed out on things I had looked forward to doing when in the 6th form.
But if I hadn't got to where I wanted to get to, it would definitely have been a bad move, and I would have been throwing it back at my parents I'm sure.

Also the reasons why my parents thought it would be better to move mostly became very quickly obvious that they'd been blinded by a smoke screen. They didn't believe me then and they still don't now. So things that you think are great may be you believing something she knows not to be true.

[BubblesBuddy]

My DD changed schoolsfor 6th form and went to a school that had far better A level results in her subjects than where she was. She improved on one subject froma B at GCSE to an A at A level. I would therefore agree with posters that you need to look at the subject results over several years: not just one low or high achieving year. Also she may need maths to go with Biology and Chemistry for enty to degrees in this field.

[BeyondThePage]

My DD has just changed this summer - she was at a good comp (could have done better at GCSE) and applied for 6th form before GCSEs taken :
there at her good comp as her absolute fall back (5 GCSEs A-C req),
at a superselective grammar as her dream ticket (ended up needing 4A*, 4A),
and at a local grammar (5 A required) as her probable.

She didn't get the superselective grades, but qualified for the "probable" and is there now and very happy indeed - she chose to be there.

The problem with applying for more than one is that those that accept even conditionally all seem to have induction days in June/July that they expect attendance at.

[jaguar67]

Absolutely can be done - has happened v successfully in this house - but with following provisos:
Reasons for wanting to go to new place are stronger than simply a desire to leave the old one! Get her to articulate all this to you - almost as though presenting a business case - challenge her thinking. You'll know if/ when it's the right thing.
Look v closely at results for individual subjects at A level (can be quite different from broad brush GCSE league table reporting) & subject destinations.
How serious is new school/ college about integrating pupils - going in as one of a cohort of 30+ is very different to one of 4 or so. What will extra-curricular side be like & how important is this to her?
What will she really get from the move that existing school can't provide?
Is the drive really coming from her or is swept up in Yr 10/11 talk about 'how awful' current place is? IME, the ones who generally regret moving/ and want to go back, fall into this category.
Finally, listen to her - the drive to move came firmly from our DD, we could see how miserable she'd have been if she'd stayed and so helped her do the homework on options and then went with it. She was determined to make it work & it's been an absolute success not just in terms of academics, but more importantly her happiness. As an aside (but not a reason for going per se), the move at 6th has provided another stepping stone toward university - meeting completely new people, settling into new environment etc.
As other OPs have said, there's movement a plenty at 6th , with DCs coming, going, & even moving back a week or so in.
Good luck!

[wheresmyphone]

I would strongly encourage you to let her look. If you don't, or keep
Pushing back you will always be the one she can blame in future. As someone else said above, she may look and decide to stay put.

[FiveHoursSleep]

Thanks, that's useful information. We are looking at state schools only as would rather spend money on tutoring if necessary.

[FiveHoursSleep]

Yes, definitely will let her look but I know she'll blame me if the move goes pear shaped too!

[FiveHoursSleep]

Thanks everyone, you've been very helpful. We will start looking at some other schools and I'll try and be open minded as, as someone said above, it could be a good stepping stone for University.
I just have a headache thinking about the extra work that it will entail.

[AtiaoftheJulii]

I just have a headache thinking about the extra work that it will entail.

I haven't found it to be much extra work for me. With dd2 we looked at two other places, talked about them and she decided to apply to one, whilst thinking that she would probably stay at her old school. She did the application and went to the interview - no effort required from me beyond the initial two evenings out.

With ds, we only looked at one other place, he liked it and thought he would probably move. Again, he did the application and went to the interview.

Our parental input has been pretty minimal - mostly it's just involved talking about the pros and cons and so on. Plus discussion of A level choices, but that'll happen anyway!

[Kattya]

My DD moved for 6th form. She went from an all girls to a mixed. Best thing she did. Have a fabulous 6th form experience Some of her friends that stayed- I would say while academically were no different, socially maybe didn't have such a good time as DD. Which I feel is just as important, learning to mix with new people and opening your eyes to new surroundings

[TheSecondOfHerName]

Personally, I think it would be very difficult to find a sixth form better than the one at the school she's at. However, it's also important that she feels heard. Could you take her to a couple of open days this term?

There aren't any sixth form colleges in the same town (apart from the FE college which doesn't offer A-levels). I seem to remember you live in a different local authority, if so then there might be sixth form colleges in your direction.

DS2 is applying for RS and SCD as a back-up (because they require slightly lower GCSE grades for the subject combination he wants). However, these might be a bit far for her.

Finally, if she is really unhappy at school, then I suggest she goes to speak to someone. The health & welfare team would be sympathetic.

[TheSecondOfHerName]

MumTryingHerBest
The boys school only enrols boys in the sixth form. A small number of subjects are taught jointly, so a few girls do have some lessons there.

[TheSecondOfHerName]

If you want a state school which is the same or better in terms of results, there's the co-ed one beginning with P (north of the town where her current school is). I'm not sure how feasible the journey would be though.

[MumTryingHerBest]

FiveHoursSleep - We are looking at state schools only as would rather spend money on tutoring if necessary.

It could still be worth asking about bursaries etc. There may be some information here as a starting point:

www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/11plus/viewforum.php?f=31

I just have a headache thinking about the extra work that it will entail.

I know what you mean. I thought I would only be going through the school selection process the once (yr6), then I realised that I would need to do it all again for 6th form.

Even if your DC decides not to move, it is worth doing the research as there is a possiblity they may change their mind a couple of months in. If you have already laid the ground work you will be able to move fast if you feel that a change is needed.

I think a lot of DCs get a bit of shock when they move from GCSEs to A Levels as A Levels require more self study etc. I think this is what causes so much movement in and out of the schools in the first couple of terms of 6th form.

When looking at the A level results for the various schools do bear in mind that the co-hort may be very different to the one that entered the school in year 7 / did GCSEs there.

[MumTryingHerBest]

TheSecondOfHerName - A small number of subjects are taught jointly, so a few girls do have some lessons there.

That explains why I see girls there sometimes. I wasn't sure if they were based at that site.

[LooseAtTheSeams]

It's interesting to see this thread as we have a similar dilemma. DS1 doesn't hate his current school at all but says he wants a change for sixth form. We've seen the sixth form College (some distance away) and will look at two other schools where the sixth forms have great reputations. However, only one of these offers a subject he wants to do - and the other place that offers it is his current school. So he has to make some decisions about A level combinations as well as where he'd feel happiest.