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Ethnic minorities in selective schools in London

(88 Posts)
lll36 Sat 09-Sep-17 13:02:17

Since recently Theresa May has backed the idea of grammar schools for social mobility, it seems like grammar schools outside of London have a low amount of ethnic minorities. However in top grammar school in London, such as, Henrietta Barnett and Tiffin Girl's school the percentage of ethnic minorities is the vast majority and the free school mean rates are still low. Do you have any ideas to explain this trend?

Bigbiscuits Sat 09-Sep-17 13:04:06

Simple. More ethnic monorities in London than in the grammar school counties.

Bigbiscuits Sat 09-Sep-17 13:05:57

I guess that may change over time as more second and third generation people start to move out of London in search of selective education.

EssentialHummus Sat 09-Sep-17 13:14:06

I used to tutor for the 11+ in nw London, so pure anecdote and speculation here. I think first and second gen immigrants from ethnic backgrounds, particularly from India (of which London has a high concentration) are more likely to have an "education education education" mindset and drive their dc hard through the 11+ process. It's not foolproof in getting them in, and it can result in students getting in who then need tutoring in subjects all the way through.

CauliflowerSqueeze Sat 09-Sep-17 13:17:42

Not the case in north west Kent where ehnic minorities make up about 75% of grammar schools.

titchy Sat 09-Sep-17 13:50:47

it seems like grammar schools outside of London have a low amount of ethnic minorities.

Yep, same as non grammars. Ethnic mix of schools tends to reflect that of the area as a whole.

EllenJanethickerknickers Sat 09-Sep-17 13:58:06

The ethnic mix in my local super-selective is a lot more diverse than that in the local area over 100 miles from London. I don't know why but would hazard a guess that local Asian parents are more pushy and interested in their DC's education than average and more concerned about them going to grammar schools. Some of my 'pushy and interested' white friends value the high achieving comprehensive on their doorstep more than the grammar school.

lll36 Sat 09-Sep-17 14:01:38

That's true but around 80% of top schools are ethnic minority which doesn't reflect London's demographic

W00t Sat 09-Sep-17 14:02:12

I would add also that the percentage of BME pupils at DD's super-selective grammar is also very high, probably about 55-60% of pupils. The schools are v prestigious and Parents will go to great lengths to get their children in.

lll36 Sat 09-Sep-17 14:03:28

I think you have a point EssentialHummus. Do you think they're more likely to get tutored for 11 plus?

Danglingmod Sat 09-Sep-17 14:07:44

There were more ethnic minority students in the grammar school I worked in than in its corresponding secondary modern - a long way away from London.

pisacake Sat 09-Sep-17 14:08:37

My mum went to a grammar school in the 60s. Looking at the old photos, all white.

Nowadays she would be a minority there.

I'm pretty sure, however, that private schools near London's majority-minority grammar schools remain mostly white.

theconstantinoplegardener Sat 09-Sep-17 14:13:44

Part of it will be that the given percentages of various different ethnicities for any area will be the population as a whole ie children and adults of all ages. However the percentages for school-age children will be different from the population as a whole (usually higher percentage of BME pupils) because there tends to be higher fertility amongst immigrant families and also there are increasing numbers of mixed race children, which are also counted as BME.

Nuttynoo Sat 09-Sep-17 14:15:58

Depends on the area. In most areas where there are Indians/Chinese immigrants the grammar schools will have a high proportion of Indian/Chinese origin kids as selective education is seen as important to them.

EssentialHummus Sat 09-Sep-17 14:42:46

Do you think they're more likely to get tutored for 11 plus?

No idea, and also hard to draw neat comparisons. My students were all Indian, but that could just be down to referrals between friends etc.

ChestnutsRoastingOnAnOpenFire Sat 09-Sep-17 14:48:37

The 2 super selective grammars are 96% non white in this part of Essex. White population is far higher. White children are not even being entered for the tests, preferring to go into independents (if they have money) or comps.

Chewbecca Sat 09-Sep-17 14:57:36

Yes, I was about to comment on Essex too, it is noticeable that the mix at most of the grammars does not reflect the local area. Non white kids travel from a very wide area to the schools.

CalmanOnSpeeddial Sat 09-Sep-17 15:05:57

"Ethnic minorities" is a very unhelpful category for this subject. Children whose family backgrounds are Romanian/Hungarian/Indian/Bangladeshi/Ghanaian/Jamaican/Chinese/Somali will have hugely different represention in selective schools.

Nuttynoo Sat 09-Sep-17 16:31:19

It also needs to be noted that in India/China a good education is nearly always selective and private. Professionals are used to paying thousands of pounds a year and so a grammar might be seen as a bargain.

Toomanycats99 Sat 09-Sep-17 16:37:22

I love south London. The boys grammar near me has a very very high proportion of boys from an Indian background far more than is representative of the overall area. The girls I think is a bit more mixed.

woodhill Sat 09-Sep-17 16:46:15

Where I live the private schools are mostly made up of ethnic minorities and the grammar schools.

woodhill Sat 09-Sep-17 16:47:12

Plus these schools are single sex

LiveLifeWithPassion Sat 09-Sep-17 16:58:46

I live in a grammar school area and Asians (especially Indians) tend to tutor their kids from a young age and send them to Kumon.
i remember when ds1 was in year 1 and one of the mum's I was chatting to tutored her child for 2 hrs every day.

antimatter Sat 09-Sep-17 17:05:43

kids of minorities are travelling from further away than the rest of their friends
many parents of minorities kids can't move to live close to desirable comp school (inside and outside of L) and as a result they choose to apply to to super-selective schools

I think this is the main reason you see many of them in those schools.

Hulder Sat 09-Sep-17 17:14:14

You need to define ethnic minorities carefully.

Some ethnic minorities will be heavily represented - others will be vanishingly rare, depending on value placed on education especially for girls/family view on travel and mixing outside local community/familiarity with how the system works.

I went girls selective private in the 90s - Indian pupils were prob more common than in the local population. On the other hand, don't remember a single black pupil sad

When I moved to London as an adult, I had a lot of colleagues who went to Henrietta Barnett as children. It didn't seem to bear any resemblance to a normal state grammar (I thought it was a private school for about a year blush) - there's a whole industry based on getting your girl in there and it's highly competitive - 2000 applicants for 93 places. The only girls going there are ones who've parents have totally committed to it, probably with tutoring or private primary, from day 1.

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