John Fisher or grammar (Wilson....)

[nomoretime]

Hi,

my son is starting y5.
We are starting to think whether to apply for grammar schools or not. The y4 teacher said he could definitely go for the 11+ test but realistically we have to invest money and time in private tuition.
We think we have very good chances to get into John Fisher in Purley too as we are Catholic (catholic primary, holy communion and more importantly we do believe LOL!).
I am very confused and looking for point of views.... Is JF good enough? Both my kids are very sporty but i want also some good academic results....


Anything welcome.

[Aventurine]

Would your son enjoy competing with the very brightest or would it demotivate him and he'd instead thrive on being one of the higher achievers in a more mixed ability school?

[nomoretime]

Aventurine

That is a very interesting and helpful point of view .
Thank you!
Do you know the schools I am talking about?

[Aventurine]

Hi. I don't have personal experience of them. I grew up in the area and went to a nearby girls' school, but I thought I'd make a general comment based on the intake. I believe them both to be very good schools. If I was Catholic I'd probably send an extremely bright boy to Wilson's but I'd send an above average boy to John Fisher.

[Ladymuck]

Your chances of getting into JF will depend on baptismal date and weekly mass attendance - hopefully you fall into the baptised within 1 year and weekly attend mass for 3 years category.

Certainly your ds can do well at JF, and it is a sought after school.

The 11+ is very competitive, but there are >400 places at Wilsons, Wallington and Sutton.

Many children are prepared for the 11+ by their parents - private tuition isn't essential, but preparation is.

Unless you are in the top category for JF then nothing is guaranteed, and you need to think about how you will fill your spaces on your CAF. If you are in the top category then that is a good position to be in.

[nomoretime]

Aventurine, exactly. I would say my kids areabive average but I dont think extremely bright. Also, i believe in a balanced life. I have to do lots of pondering!!

Ladymuck, we go to.church regularly and yes, my kids were baptised at the age of two months. (I found out only recently that baptism date is important in the UK for applications in catholic schools _ I think it is crazy!).

[chococupcakes]

I know both schools.

There is no harm in preparing for the grammar school alongside submitting to JF. It's definitely wise to keep your options open. In any case, only you know your child. To me it's a spiritual thing. Each school will have a distinct feeling as to which one is right for your son.

I think it's scary to label your children at this age also as to how smart they are. The brain is a muscle which grows with continued effort. It becomes smarter through learning from its mistakes. Moreover, you never quite know when they are going to mature. My ds didn't get into his current top private school with the scholarship that I needed to afford it until after three attempts. He is now in the top cohort of his school while his friend who got in at 10+ has had a warning letter about being able to stay on at sixth form.

Child success is a three way thing. The parent, the school, the child. Where my ds is now, even if another school was scoring higher, if on a spiritual level (sorry for sounding whoo whoo), the schools values and ethos were not in line with my values and my son's character I think with all the will in the world he would not be doing so well there.

With regards to having a tutor, I didn't have the academic ability other parents had and so would not have been able to prepare my son for entry myself. Hiring someone with the ability is much the same as a parent tutoring them. There is also the time factor. Do you have the time or stressed to the hills with a full-time job?

I say all that to say, in my view, alongside the scores, an environment where the child can be their best self is important too.

[Teddygirlonce]

They undoubtedly will offer entirely different experiences but for a bright, motivated child both will provide the opportunity to thrive academically and in other ways too.

I think increasingly, on paper at least, Wilson's is pushing ahead of the other Sutton grammars and that makes it a super academic hot-house which is not for everyone. It consistently appears in the top 10 in the GCSE/A Levels League Tables whereas the other two tend to fluctuate more.

Some children (even the bright ones) struggle to not be top dog in very academic secondary schools. It is the making of some but not all. You need to ask yourself if your DS would prefer to be a little fish in a big pond or the reverse?

Have you visited the schools and if so what was your gut feeling? Have you not considered SGS or WCGS?

With the Noughties 'baby boom' now hitting secondary school age it is getting more and more competitive to get Sutton super-selective grammar school places, although not impossible. Certainly all from my DCs' primary school who managed to get into Wilson's (usually one per year from a two form entry state primary) were tutored for two years+.

Going down the grammar school application route is not for the faint-hearted and very much requires the DC to be super on-board with the idea. We've done it twice now, once successfully and once not.

What I would say that is that you are luckier than most in having a very good faith school fall-back option.