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Sutton SET Test

(24 Posts)
whataboutbob Sat 13-May-17 13:12:37

I am trying to find out what the structure is for the English part of the SET Test.
The website says there will be a separate multiple choice answer paper to record answers, so am I correct in thinking there will not be piece of creative writing in the SET? Thanks in advance to anyone who can shed some light, it is sometimes so difficult to establish exactly what the grammar school exams consist of.

Ladymuck Sat 13-May-17 14:03:33

Correct - no creative writing in the SET.

whataboutbob Sat 13-May-17 16:09:45

Thanks Lady. Sorry to ask the inevitable follow on question, but what are the best resources for preparing for the English SET? Just done Bond 11+ English and VR with DS and it was sobering- he scored less than 10/20 in our 1st exercise! Now planning a summer of English practice!

Ladymuck Sat 13-May-17 16:58:05

I'd use resources for the SATS tests (L6 in old money). There will be comprehensions but typically shorter ones. There will probably be a cloze test, some spellings and grammar. Not so many traditional VR questions, but still worth looking at antonyms and synonyms.

whataboutbob Sat 13-May-17 21:08:04

Thank you very much LM.

nicp123 Tue 16-May-17 01:58:29

Don't be surprised if your child will have a small piece of creative writing... there will definately be one in the actual exam after the SET.
I would suggest the GL 11+tests packs if you can borrow or buy cheaply. Usually approx. £10 per pack I think & worth as answer sheets included so the child can get used to the format. Good luck!

nicp123 Tue 16-May-17 01:59:28

You can borrow mine!

MagicMarkers Tue 16-May-17 07:35:12

I think the Sutton SET is multiple choice so no creative writing. There is creative writing for the second exams (for those who pass the SET). Wallington County Grammar doesn't do a second exam, but the other schools do.

whataboutbob Tue 16-May-17 13:37:34

Thanks everyone and thank you nicp. I think I'll head to WHSmith and look out for the GL+ plus test packs.

Wimbles101 Thu 25-May-17 21:34:26

Hi I would CGP papers - they are the closest to the real thing. Bond is nowhere near the level required. Sorry for the sobering advice but if he's struggling with Bond you really need to get him up to speed.
No creative writing in SET - that only comes at the second stage.
It might be too late but Wilsons as well as Sutton and Wallington are all running mock exams this year although they get very booked up.
He needs to be scoring about 75-80% on both Maths and English CGP papers by the summer to have a realistic chance. I say this as someone who's just been through it.
Good luck!

whataboutbob Thu 25-May-17 21:41:11

Thanks Wimbles it's good to have an honest view.
He's booked in for a mock exam, I suspect it's going to be a rude awakening.
When the grammar school heads say they just need KS2 to get in - Hah!

whataboutbob Thu 25-May-17 21:56:11

Have just ordered 2 CGP English books!

Wimbles101 Sat 27-May-17 11:00:44

Yes unfortunately it's pretty tough - Wilsons second stage had level 7 Maths type questions - they just have too many boys who are able to handle GCSE type Maths.
SET was also challenging - I would say Level 6 as my son is doing some of that stuff now.

nicp123 Sun 28-May-17 18:35:27

Wimbles101...What year did Wilson's have the second stage L7 Questions?
My DS's Personal experience: Wilson's exams only difference found: a more sophisticated style of questioning and vocabulary compare to those found in SATs exams and classroom based assessments tests.
The Head teachers advise given to us over the years was very useful and accurate.
Grammar schools exams taken by our DS's were based on the National Curriculum and appropriate to the level taught in the classroom.
Other friends we have at Wilson's are not geniuses by any stretch of imagination. They were just above average in their class. Level 5 SAT's

Wimbles101 Tue 30-May-17 11:12:39

In 2016. Previous years at Wilsons have been easier.
My DS prep had about 8-9 boys go to Wilsons in 2015 only 3 offered last year.
I don't believe that either paper was Level 5 Maths. My DS subsequently did Trinity paper and that was level 5.
I wish parents would start having an honest discussion about this. The SET in 2016 was not Level 5 Maths. The English was but not the Maths.

whataboutbob Tue 30-May-17 13:09:18

This is sobering. Shouldn't the selective schools also be having an honest discussion about it- effectively the only ones in with a chance will have been prepped to the Nth degree?

tiggytape Tue 30-May-17 14:56:46

In 2014, 42% of children got Level 5 maths (and 49% got level 5 reading)

Given that only higher ability children tend to apply for the grammar schools, and given that there are thousands applying, a level 5 test wouldn't be very helpful in deciding who got a place and who didn't (you could end up with a few hundred getting full or near full marks).

And that's all the test is there for really - Yes it has to filter out children who would not cope with the standard and pace of work at a grammar school but, if you work on the assumption that a decent proportion of all those applying are of a roughly equal and very high ability, the test needs to be difficult enough to separate them out a bit.

MrsPatmore Tue 30-May-17 18:38:26

Ds sat Wilsons last September. The maths paper included a simultaneous equation. The last few questions were undoubtedly Level 6/7 maths (and the timing is tight). Ds sat several super selective tests (incl Westminster Under) and said Wilsons had one of the hardest maths papers. In our experience, many of these very clever boys are amazing at maths but it is English which is the differentiator and I would advise focussing your efforts there if the maths is already good.

MrsPatmore Tue 30-May-17 18:40:56

Last Autumn I meant! Don't think the test was in September!

Wimbles101 Wed 31-May-17 09:49:12

Thanks Mrs Patmore for being honest about this.
Tiggytape- yes and no. Level 6 is fine but unfortunately the heads are still telling parents on open day that they only need Level 5 - I really wish they would stop that.

Unfortunately a lot of it comes down to the age of the boy in September.

Wimbles101 Wed 31-May-17 09:50:05

Agree English is the differentiator.

Wimbles101 Wed 31-May-17 09:53:30

Btw Tiggytape I think the suggestion that because a boy is not at Level 6/7 Maths before he needs means that he won't be able to keep up with the 'pace' is slightlh presumptuous and actually wrong.

tiggytape Wed 31-May-17 10:00:35

I absolutely wasn't saying that at all - in fact I am saying the dead opposite.

What I am saying is: there are far FAR more children who would benefit from a grammar school education and who are academically suited for it than there are grammar school places.

The 11+ in areas where only a few grammar schools exist is therefore becomes a "false" way of trying to separate out children into "grammar ability" and "not grammar ability" when in reality there isn't a hair's breadth of difference between them. They set the test so high that they are able to find a few who score marginally higher than others.

Given that everyone who is well above average in primary school could probably easily cope at grammar, the grammar schools set the bar much higher than that "obvious grammar school standard" because they haven't got room to take the top 5 boys from every class in every primary school in a 5 mile radius and need to set the test hard enough just to identify the top 1, 2 or 3

Wimbles101 Thu 01-Jun-17 15:52:05

For me the basic problem with grammars having seen the boys they take is that they very rarely are they taking the brightest - certainly in Surrey they are taking two sorts of boys 1) those are extremely good at Maths at the expense of English and other subjects 2) those who are pushed to often a point that is unhealthy - tbh 1 and 2 are often the same sort of boy.
IMO the competitive privates are setting far more sensible tests. Certainly at my DS's prep more and more parents are realising that even those who thought they were dead set on a grammar

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