Petition against grammar school expansion

[JaneJefferson]

Sign the petition if you disagree with the roll out of new grammar schools and the poorer education that will be forced onto the majority who do not pass to get into them.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/164270

[yeOldeTrout]

Thanks - signed.
I heard claims tonight that 75% of parents are in favour of more GS. So at least 55% of parents whose children won't go to grammars think grammars are a great idea? I can't get my head around it. I think I need to stop listening to news media. :(

[Wellywife]

I doubt it will get through the House of Lords anyway.

[Redactio]

Why would I want to sign a petition designed to deny children the best possible education?

[JaneJefferson]

Hope not welly wife.

I don't think it is designed to deny children the best education but to provide the best education to all rather than a few.

[AndNowItsSeven]

Er no thanks , my local comps are awful now and they will still be awful if we have another local grammar. However my dc will have more options at a good education.

[prh47bridge]

I'm not convinced bringing back grammar schools is the right thing to do. However, I won't be signing any petitions until I've seen the details of the policy. Some of what has been announced points to this being significantly different to the old grammar school model.

I also recognise that the public generally support this policy. One recent poll showed 53% in favour of re-introducing grammar schools and only 20% against - the rest were don't knows. Interestingly, while the margins varied, supporters of grammar schools outnumbered opponents in every political and demographic group. Despite Labour's long standing opposition, even Labour supporters break in favour of re-introducing grammar schools.

[BlueGazebo]

Signed.

Make ALL schools grammar schools. Why should 20% get a better education than the rest? It's wrong to brand a child a failure at age 11. Is anyone in favour of secondary moderns? Anybody in favour of grammar schools should be equally in favour of secondary moderns and equally happy for their child to attend either school. Some children need to be in top sets for some subjects and lower subjects for others.

[yeOldeTrout]

@prh: what bits of what TMay has announced do you think sound very different from existing or historical grammar schools?

TMay said something about tests that couldn't be studied for: I think experiments have already been done to try to achieve tutor-proof tests, & they aren't working so far.

TMay seems to be talking about banding, so instead of the highest (eg) 10% of all scores, it would be highest 10% of scores by bands (? socioeconomic background): what appeal would parents have if they thought they had been placed in the wrong SE background?

It sounds like rigid entry points, at start of yrs 7, 10 or 12. Why? Why not at any point, and will the entrance be based only on spaces available, in which case how will kids who don't do well enough in grammar get kicked out, will there be a set attrition rate each year?

[PonderingProsecco]

Signed....

[teta]

Nope,i'm happy with the idea.Might give lots of kids some choice other than the rubbish local comp. Which lets down everyone ,whether you're bright or not.To get decent schooling here you have to pay massively.Even these independents don't get results as high as many Southern state schools.
Rural county with one Grammar that now restricts access by postcode.

[haybott]

Even these independents don't get results as high as many Southern state schools.

Because of their demographics. Grammar schools won't be a magic fix.

[stripesstpots]

If the two academies round here turn into grammars as it says they would be encouraged to then the kids who aren't top scoring and wouldn't pass 11 plus but still capable of B and C would be forced into the other two awful schools.

What happens to kids already in the school when it converted who aren't top scoring ?

[BeMorePanda]

I'm much more concerned about the proposed new religious school and their 100% religious quota.
All religious schools should be done away with.
A very regressive step from our religious PM that goes against all advice.

[BeMorePanda]

This issue seems to be slipping under the radar due to all the grammar school hoo ha.

[prh47bridge]

what bits of what TMay has announced do you think sound very different from existing or historical grammar schools

She has ruled out a return to secondary moderns and has suggested all schools might be able to select. Not sure how that works but we haven't seen the detailed proposals yet.

The plans for children to be able to join at 14 and 16 are different from old grammar schools. When I was at school if you failed the 11+ it was almost impossible to move to grammar school later.

She has talked about grammar schools taking students from non-selective schools for some subjects.

There will apparently be a requirement for selective schools to admit a large proportion of pupils from disadvantaged backgrounds or sponsor a non-selective school in a poor area.

All these sound very different to the way grammar schools worked when I was a child. I want to see detailed proposals before I pass judgement.

[IAmNotTheMessiah]

I strongly agree with Panda's point.

Otherwise I'm bemused by the strange thinking on here. Mumsnetters are very quick to shout that their precious snowflake must be treated individually, except when it comes to schools, when they need to all be shoe-horned into a one-size-fits-all straitjacket!

Why deny opportunities to those children that would benefit from them? However, I would also like to see the other side of this, and have the Technical Colleges and the like reopened, for the many children who would benefit from learning a trade rather than pursuing academia. This is particularly important now the the idiots hard of thinking have voted to exclude us from our main source of qualified tradespeople.

[Lovefromhull]

Thank you- signed. So fed up with this plan.
Wouldn't want my kids in a grammar and wouldn't want them to have to face the pressure of the test.
Who are we to deem which subjects/ pathways that pupils follow are better than others. Comprehensives offer ALL CHILDREN opportunities in academic and vocational subjects.

[MaQueen]

BlueGazebo it isn't that "20% get a better education". It is that the 20% get a level, speed and intensity of education that is right for them.

A shed load of children aren't remotely academic, and never will be.

[Proseccocino]

MaQueen, you are right, but no one will admit it.

Socialists want to deny that some children and people are more intelligent than others.

[yeOldeTrout]

I'm fine about streaming within schools.
A big problem with complete separation of buildings and premises is that it reduces opportunities by narrowing the scope of types of education that each institution can offer. That really is putting kids into narrow one-size-fits-all all boxes.

I know a lady who was in the last intake for the girl's grammar school in our town. She often tells a story, that she wanted to study hairdressing but wasn't allowed ("too clever"). She's not laughing at her foolish younger self, she's still peeved that she was denied opportunities & a full range of choices.

[MaQueen]

Pro well, obviously some children are far more intelligent than others. In the same way that some children are far more musical, artistic, athletic, gregarious etc.

It's just silly to pretend otherwise. Children, themselves, usually have a damned good idea of where they 'rank' in their class, based on how 'clever' they are.

[teddygirlonce]

All schools should have a selective stream. In a way the comps that 'band' (such as Wandsworth) effectively already do.

I won't be signing the petition as I think all children should have the right to selective education. Many of the highly regarded and high achieving comprehensives are 'selective' in a different way based on location.

[nicp123]

NO THANKS!
My personal experience and opinion about Grammar Schools very positive.
YES please to more CHOICE!
YES please to more Grammar Schools places.
Good luck to you all.

[Lovefromhull]

But we are assuming that English and maths are the only subjects that are worth anything. Some in grammar schools might be amazing at other subjects, but won't get the chances that comps give them. Also, we are talking about choice as if it's accessible to everyone. Lots of communities only have one school. No choices there. One school for all.