Exclusion from secondary school

(61 Posts)
parentgov1 Fri 13-May-16 14:55:21

Headteachers seem to have to much power to exclude with governors often supporting and Independent Review panels not able to reinstate. Schools and their leadership do not seem to recognise that if you address needs and get education right this may lead to improved behaviour,they focus too much on behaviour policies (often excessively even when not working) and not need/education. Schools don't seem to look at themselves enough to see if they have made mistakes and how provision could be improved instead they blame the child. If they can get it right for the most challenging child and saw it as an opportunity it would benefit the school. Would be interested to hear from other parents with similar concerns.

Foxyloxy1plus1 Fri 13-May-16 16:28:22

What would improve the provision for you? What would need to change in the school to make it possible for the child to remain, in your view?

noblegiraffe Fri 13-May-16 16:31:07

The more usual complaint is that it is too difficult for schools to exclude disruptive pupils and even when they do the decision can be overturned.

meditrina Fri 13-May-16 16:31:32

do you have a proposal for what the system should be?

Wolfiefan Fri 13-May-16 16:33:52

Schools don't exclude unless there is a pattern of poor behaviour or something really outrageous happens. It never happens out of the blue.
Sadly mainstream education can't cope with all children. In a class of 30 (and with limited) TA support there's a limit to what can be done.

OddBoots Fri 13-May-16 16:35:47

I do believe is should be compulsory for there to be an Ed Psyc review done before a permanent exclusion, at the point the school think there is a risk of PEX if possible.

Other than that it depends on the reason for exclusion, if a child makes the school unsafe for other students and staff then there is no alternative but exclusion but for disruption that isn't violent should be controlled with other measures in the first instance.

parentgov1 Fri 13-May-16 16:39:57

there isn't enough challenge at the time of exclusion and matters such as SEN which should be being looked at get overlooked, it should be more about inclusion and it would make sense for schools to have an inclusion panel to make sure that the reasons for exclusion have been made clear and are valid but also that all other strands of thinking have taken place, safety, SEN etc, this should be taken before a school excludes

parentgov1 Fri 13-May-16 16:41:06

I think since 2014 and the pressure on results and focus on results/budgets that School forget it is about the child

Wolfiefan Fri 13-May-16 16:42:20

SEN isn't overlooked. Schools need to prioritise the safety and learning of ALL students. They can't keep students in school who stop others learning or are violent.
Have you had a child excluded? Why?
Or are you a journalist? hmm

parentgov1 Fri 13-May-16 16:43:45

if you have success at the IRP this does not reinstate a child and the school can still decide to maintain exclusion and instead face what in their budget terms is a small fine, rather than admit they may have been wrong, it is then potentially 20weeks in a tribunal process to overturn the schools decision and reinstate

Wolfiefan Fri 13-May-16 16:44:08

So a journo then?

NicknameUsed Fri 13-May-16 16:46:04

"The more usual complaint is that it is too difficult for schools to exclude disruptive pupils and even when they do the decision can be overturned."

This ^^

It is my understanding that ofsted mark schools down for excluding students.

A school in our LA found students dealing drugs this week. I think the dealer will be excluded from the school because they have a zero tolerance policy as far as drug dealing is concerned.

parentgov1 Fri 13-May-16 17:03:04

SEN are much more likely to be excluded and arguably missed in exclusion process often making them illegal, check out the school exclusion project

parentgov1 Fri 13-May-16 17:07:54

my concern is that it now far easier to exclude rather than the school look at itself or even really understand say a behaviour that led to the exclusion, it allows and can lead to poor leadership at schools in my opinion, Governors are there to provide oversight/ judgement but don't often do this, tending to support poor decisions

parentgov1 Fri 13-May-16 17:08:52

thanks for the contributions so far have to sign off for a while

titchy Fri 13-May-16 17:16:00

Easier to exclude?! I think you'll find it's more difficult now to permanently exclude a kid.

2009/10 - 0.15% of secondary kids permanently excluded.

2024/15 - 0.13%.

titchy Fri 13-May-16 17:17:30

That's 1 kid excluded each year per 2 average sized secondary schools. Half a kid per school. Not exactly earth shattering.....

RidersOnTheStorm Fri 13-May-16 17:20:47

It isn't easy enough to exclude violent children. Heads should be able enforce instant suspension and permanent exclusion if it's deemed necessary for the protection of other children.

NicknameUsed Fri 13-May-16 17:25:30

I don't understand what point you are trying to make parentgov. I have read so many threads on here from parents of children who have been physically bullied really badly and the schools have done very little to help. They haven't excluded the perpetrators because it is very difficult to do so.

I used to be a parent governor and during the last 5 years only two students have been excluded, both for drug dealing.

parentgov1 Fri 13-May-16 17:43:57

My point is that an exclusion should be treated seriously with proper investigation, risk assessment of keeping a child at school and any SEN matters, is the school behaviour policy potentially contributing to issues , the lack of SEN provision means this is often not addressed sufficiently

parentgov1 Fri 13-May-16 17:45:01

If I was found. To do something illegal in my job I would lose it and wouldn't work again, I don't get given a choice of a small fine which is the situation we are now with schools

noblegiraffe Fri 13-May-16 17:47:50

If schools could exclude on a whim as you are suggesting, there would be way more exclusions than there are.

parentgov1 Fri 13-May-16 17:50:16

I feel strongly about this and concerned for other parents who may not know their and their child's rights, hoping I'll be able to explain more soon

Senac32 Fri 13-May-16 17:56:41

In reply to meditrina -
I used to be an Ed. Psych. (I'm an older member on here.) These problems have existed for many years and in my view are mainly due to the set curriculum not being appropriate for many pupils. Too academic.
One senior high school I visited was lucky enough to have a new scheme promoted by a local business with philanthropic interests. Courses were offered in a range of practical subjects including hairdressing, plumbing, photography , childcare etc.etc. Many pupils who were long term truants returned, plus others who had been excluded, and the scheme was a great success.

titchy Fri 13-May-16 18:08:04

There is no evidence that exclusions are dealt with in the manner you suggest. In fact the evidence supports the opposite.

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