# Talk

## Maths question

(25 Posts)
S999 Tue 24-Nov-15 13:21:17

Those with kids in prep schools year 5 please! What are your kids doing in maths at the moment? Practice papers or still new topics? Which topics please? Having a total sense of humour failure with my DD's school maths prep.
Thanks!

balletgirlmum Tue 24-Nov-15 13:23:51

Practice papers for what exactly? In Year 5 mine were just doing normal maths but they did have an end of year exam.

Entrance exam to linked senior school was computer based & the school did not specifically prepare children for other schools entrance exams.

balletgirlmum Tue 24-Nov-15 13:25:11

However you've put this in secondary. It might be better in primary if it's about Year 5.

balletgirlmum Tue 24-Nov-15 13:28:47

Year 5 curriculum Autumn Term

Number & Place Value
Written/mental calculations
Decimals, percentages & their equivalence to fractions
Geometry & property of shape
Measurement (24 hour clock, converting different units of length)

Autumnsky Tue 24-Nov-15 14:25:25

DS1 was in state primary, he started to practice sample exam paper from Y5 Easter, I found it is more than enough.

Happymummy007 Tue 24-Nov-15 16:44:42

DD in prep Year 5. She's doing angles (obtuse, acute etc) at the moment, plenty of mental arithmetic practice (one test paper a week, plus homework), fractions (addition, subtraction and the like), "bus stop" method of division, long multiplication. Can't think of anything else at the moment. We're new to the school and she had done some of these before in her previous school, but some are new topics for the existing pupils. What are you practising for?

S999 Wed 25-Nov-15 01:57:45

I'm so sorry, I was so vague. DD is applying to the London independent prep schools Jan 2017 and given the standard of the papers and the 'maths' she is currently doing - basic ratio, a 2 week project on an international space station (???), basic fractions...sounds like we are way behind.
She does have a tutor but honestly how much can she cover out of school?

balletgirlmum Wed 25-Nov-15 09:48:29

Sounds fairly standard year 5 stuff to me.

kjwh Wed 25-Nov-15 10:08:10

I'd suggest you try to get her into long multiplication and long division either via the tutor or teach it yourself. I know that using lots of different methods can cause confusion, but the current teaching at primary can and does cause problems with entrance exams and for the start of secondary school as eventually they have to learn the long mult/div methods when dealing with larger numbers, decimals, etc.

Wed 25-Nov-15 11:52:12

I've just had a look at the Yr 5 maths curriculum at the DS's prep

It includes
Multiplication of 2 or 3 digit numbers by 2 digit numbers either grid or arithmetic
Division of 3or 4 digit numbers by 2 digit number with remainders
Decimals inc Addition and subtraction, multiplication by 10 and multiples of 10, multiplication of decimal by single digit number.
Fractions - mixed numbers to improper fractions, basic addition and subtraction of fractions, decimals into fractions and percentages.
BIDMAS
Difference between types of triangle and types of angle e.g. acute & obtuse and filling in a missing angle.
Drawing angles and lines of symmetry.
Recognising shapes such as pentagons, rhombus etc. and know what defines them
Calculate basic volumes, areas and perimeters
Data handling inc tally charts and bar graphs and reading simple graphs
Time
Coordinates
Basic probability
Mean, median, mode and range.

There is a fair bit of more basic stuff (e.g. place values) but these are the more complicated areas that your DD may need to make sure she knows.

Best of luck

.

S999 Wed 25-Nov-15 12:05:08

It's very standard stuff they're doing, but is that enough to compete with the London preps who are focussing on the St Paul's exams or North London consortium exams. These exams all involve hardcore logic puzzles etc.

S999 Wed 25-Nov-15 12:06:09

I'm interested to hear what the 'feeder' prep schools are doing maths-wise if any can advise?

Wed 25-Nov-15 12:11:41

S999
DS's prep is a feeder prep to St Paul's but it is boys so it is 13+ entry.

S999 Thu 26-Nov-15 01:21:50

Sorry I meant the girls school - gosh I'm confusing everyone sorry!

Thu 26-Nov-15 10:20:20

I've had a quick look at the SPGS sample paper and it is along the lines of what DS1 was doing in year 6. Things like linear sequences, finding the rule for sequences using algebra etc.

One trick I used with him was to sit down with word questions and get him to decipher the sum. e.g. If one apple and 2 bananas cost 40p and 3 apples cost 30p. How much would 4 bananas cost? i.e.
a+2b=40
3a = 30
4b=?

Happymummy007 Thu 26-Nov-15 16:37:09

Is she doing the verbal reasoning papers? We've just started them and they include all sorts of problems, not just language ones. Also Mental Arithmetic papers - again we have those for homework and you can get copies at WH Smiths. They have (increasingly confusing) logic puzzles. My DH and I both have degrees, and occasionally even we scratch our heads on some of them.

TennisMom Thu 26-Nov-15 23:51:31

S999-shouldn't your tutor know and advise accordingly? I am a tutor with Year 5 students aiming for top tier schools (Westminster, St Paul's Boys, Eton, SPGS, among others) and they are already doing Level 6 maths or starting to with a year left to go.

S999 Fri 27-Nov-15 06:25:26

Yes, she's going VR and that's one of her strong points.

the trouble is her British school abroad is very different to the selective London prep she went to and the maths is way behind hence the tutor. The tutor gives her past papers and she has now started algebra and more complicated fraction so it seems as though out of school we are on the right track. Which are the Mental Arithmetic books please? We don't have those, only the Schofield & Sims ones...

Thank you so much

GoddessErrata Fri 27-Nov-15 08:19:55

4 bananas = 60p?

Fri 27-Nov-15 09:26:13

Goddess

Correct

OP
If 3 apples = 30p then 1 apple is 30/3 = 10p =a
So
a+2b=40
10+2b=40
2b=40-10
2b=30
b=15

4b = 4x15
4b=60p

When you first read it question it looks complicated but once you break it down into basic sums it is actually quite straightforward. Being able to decode these complex looking questions is a useful exam skill.

Galore Park produce books that are used to prepare for 11+ and 13+ exams.
www.galorepark.co.uk/

Abetes Fri 27-Nov-15 12:57:13

She definitely doesn't need to be doing past papers now - she'll be bored out of her mind by the time the exams come around if she's only in year 5.

My dd was at a non-selective London prep whose pupils went to a huge range of schools. They started looking at the odd exam style question in the final term of year 5 - but not whole papers at all. They started papers in the first term of year 6 but were also still covering new ground until the end of November. Dd got an offer from SPGS and other academic London day schools so the strategy definitely worked.

I would build up gradually to the past papers by doing some logic style problems - starting with a whole paper designed for very bright students who are a year ahead will just be depressing and confidence sapping.

S999 Fri 27-Nov-15 12:58:45

Thanks! I can sleep now...

Happymummy007 Fri 27-Nov-15 17:10:22

Look on Amazon for the Mental Arithmetic Books. They are by Goddard and Adams, Key Stage 2, years 3-6 and 7-11. There are lots of books on there, but those are the ones that we've been given at the moment (come to think of it, I could do with the Answer book!)

Happymummy007 Fri 27-Nov-15 17:12:39

Oops - just realised the books I've suggested are the same ones you're using. I'd be happy with those; you're obviously on the right track.

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