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Tiffin stage 1

(43 Posts)
buggybored Mon 19-Oct-15 19:13:05

Hi, DS got 196/ cut-off mark for invite to stage 2 was apparently 218. Just wondering if anyone knew if he was miles off or a credible effort (no multiple choice prep as we did it more to see if he was alright with the whole exam scenario!). Any ideas?

Sabbymac Mon 19-Oct-15 22:42:57

My son got 216, just missed out by a gnat's whisker!

SelfRaisingFlour Mon 19-Oct-15 23:09:21

The mean mark is set to 100 for each exam so if he got less than 100 in an exam then he got a below average mark. He wasn't much below though.

DS just made the cutoff.

People on the 11+ forum are asking about their out of catchment chances. It astonishes me that anyone thinks there is any possibility that Tiffin won't be able to find 180 bright boys within a 14km radius of the school.

Waitingandhoping2015 Tue 20-Oct-15 10:26:57

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

tiggytape Tue 20-Oct-15 11:11:49

What on earth are you taking about waitingandhoping2015?
Your post is really, really offensive and doesn't even have the redeeming feature of being helpful.

Buggy - 196 is not necessarily way below at all. Marks are not distributed evenly all along a line. There will be a cluster in the middle and a few people at the extreme ends (so a few who get very high and a few who get very low marks). buggy - your son is in that middle cluster but obviously just a touch to the lower end of it so missed out this time.

It is definitely a credible effort and he should be proud of himself for giving it a go. Most of the boys who sit the tests are bright - nobody would bother otherwise as the standard required is well known. He is only being judged in relation to the other very bright boys who sat the test so it is certainly no poor reflection on his efforts at all.

Niksy2015 Tue 20-Oct-15 11:16:00

@ Waitingandhoping2015

'the Asians' - what a really rude and thoughtless comment from you.

tiggytape Tue 20-Oct-15 11:21:17

I meant the advice about the scores from waitingandhoping2015 wasn't helpful because it wasn't anything like the full picture.

But obviously the negative, racist stereotypes in waitingandhoping2015's post are not able to be redeemed even if the advice on scores had been helpful.

And excuse my typos. Feeling cross that people think it is O.K to post stuff like that.

titchy Tue 20-Oct-15 11:22:45

14km is about 10 miles - would take about 20 mins door to door on the train for me hmm

Niksy2015 Tue 20-Oct-15 11:28:04

@ tiggytape - yes I completly agree with you!

Its just so rude to read that 'the asians...dont think like normal people'.

Every parent and child puts in tremendous effort for these exams - its a huge emotional rollercoaster, and yes whilst 196 is below Tiffins required mark - it still a very good effort for the parent and child concerned.

Waitingandhoping2015 Tue 20-Oct-15 15:53:30

So 'Tiger Parenting' ? Look it up if you haven't heard of it. Certainly a different way of thinking compared with the norm.

Which station out of interest is 10 miles from Kingston and is a 20 minute journey?

titchy Tue 20-Oct-15 16:50:57

Clapham junction. 20 mins, 8 miles, 13 km.

It's a densely populated area, served by a multitude of buses and trains. You hardly have to a tiger parent and shove your pfb out the door at 5.30 each morning to battle their way to school.

And there are plenty of white tiger parents, and plenty of south East Asian parents who aren't tigers.

buggybored Tue 20-Oct-15 20:06:13

I missed waitingandhoping's post, what a shame, sounds like it was both objective and v proud of DS's effort - particularly as we didn't get the email from Tiffin on how to fill in the paper (not that I'm kidding myself that it would made sufficient difference if he was obviously soooooo way below....)Putting it down as a useful dress rehearsal for January exams (can't wait)

Waitingandhoping2015 Thu 22-Oct-15 07:00:44

I only painted the reality that no, 196 was not a good score as it is below halfway and with c1800 sitting the exam that would mean at least 1000 place if not lower.

And to caveat, the cohort of 1800 are not all bright, there are plenty sitting it not knowing how hard it is to get in or sitting it as a mock etc etc.

In our case DS1 sat it previously as a mock / get used to exam conditions etc and finished well in the top half despite being only top 1/3rd at primary school. He did fine in the Jan exams but did need to work hard and up his game for those.

tiggytape Thu 22-Oct-15 09:08:35

Your post was removed because you said unpleasant things based on racial stereotypes along the lines that that "they" didn't think "like normal people" which is offensive - nothing to do with 'painting' any reality.

And obviously OP already knows that 196 won't be enough to make the cut this year but, due to the uneven way marks are distributed (a cluster in the middle) you cannot extrapolate an exact ranking from that.

And you certainly cannot extrapolate from that the relative intelligence of other candidates. The example you give of your son only supports the fact that only bright children tend to take these tests.

Your son was in the top group of his primary school (top third) so he is one of the "bright" ones I referred to who tend to take these tests. It is usual that most children taking tests for highly selective and opt-in schools are top group children and the test seeks to separate them out from one another when in truth, most of them are of very similar ability.
So even coming halfway down is a very good effort - it may be that only a couple of questions separate those in the top half from those in the bottom half of scores. The 11+ isn't designed to be an detailed assessment of ability. It is designed to be blunt and relatively inexpensive way of whittling down 1800+ candidates - the majority of whom will be considered bright - into a more manageable number for a second, more expensive, test and then finally a more manageable number for admissions.

Strix Thu 22-Oct-15 13:54:32

I would like to share my Tiffin experience, especially for those who did not make the cut. My first experience was Tiffin Girls two years. Convinced DD is bright and capable and a driven competitive personality who would flourish at Tiffin, we embarked on the tutoring. She did not make the cut. I was devasted. al my hopes for her education cam crashing down, and I cried.

This year: Tiffin boy. We made the cut with a comfortable cushion between DS score and the cut off. And I was at least as happy as I was disappointed two years ago.

Today, DD is at the The Green School in Isleworth. She is happy. Her grades at the end of year 7 ranged from good to great. WE have no complaints. So I just want to say that going to Tiffin Girls was not everything. And I am perfectly happy with her progress at The Green School.

It's not the end of the world. It really isn't. I hope this is helpful because if you are feeling linked I did two years ago I know its not a nice place.

Strix Thu 22-Oct-15 13:55:40

Sorry about the terrible typing. I obviously went to a rubbish school.

Waitingandhoping2015 Thu 22-Oct-15 14:31:09

Thanks titchy. Is there another Clapham Junction? The only one I know measures c. 10.6km in a straight line to Tiffin School, and trains from there take min 19 minutes so door to door in 20 mins would be impressive! Facts. Straight. Please.

Again: Which station out of interest is 10 miles from Kingston and is a 20 minute journey?

Waitingandhoping2015 Thu 22-Oct-15 14:34:53

For years people have been pushing their children beyond normality in order to gain a place at Tiffin.

Fact is that the majority of those that apply are Asian.

Fact is that about half of the boys at the school have declared that English is their second language.

Fact is that there is hardly a white face to be seen in the playground if you walk by at break time or lunch time.

Just facts that's all.

Strix Thu 22-Oct-15 14:46:59

And your point being?


Strix Thu 22-Oct-15 14:59:05

Could someone on here confirm how many went through. I think it was 500. So does that mean the 500th top score was 218? And what if 20 boys scored 218? Does that then mean that actually 519 boys went through to stage 2?

Waitingandhoping2015 Thu 22-Oct-15 14:59:43

That 14km is a long enough distance to travel...

lilybetsy Fri 23-Oct-15 09:03:16

My son scored 259. we have a place for the second test on Nov 10th. I am, however, for a variey of reasons not 10% sure I want to send him there even if we get offered a place. Its seems extreamly pressured. For the record DS hd one hours tutoring a week for a year nd has done the odd paper in between, def no pressure from me.

anyone have direct expereice of how a bright kid from a state school might fit in at Tiffin ? DS is caucasian, we live close and it is true than many of the children are asian, thats not an issue - but English as a second language might be ...

lilybetsy Fri 23-Oct-15 09:13:13

100% sure - not 10%

Zhabr Fri 23-Oct-15 09:48:23

Well, not Tiffin boys but TGS experience here. My DD used to be "English as a second language" (not Asian), but not as such any more. She is very good in English, always getting 20/20 in all her essays. So EFL is definitely not a problem. Many Asian girls are second or third generation and their mums speak much better English than me. DD is happy at school ( she is not that happy about the school expansion though as it is becoming very crowded) and all her classmates who went into TB are also very happy and fulfilled.
The absolute majority came from the state schools. But! in all honesty, if is was up to me I would remove some post codes from the catchment area as it is indeed too far away.
As English is my second language may I ask forgiveness if you notice any mistakes in my post.

tiggytape Fri 23-Oct-15 09:52:05

English as a second language is a bit of an unhelpful measure at the best of times. At a selective school where a good standard of English is required to pass entrance tests, it is even less relevant. Maybe rephrasing it as "bilingual" might help?

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