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wilson/sutton grammar second stage test

(26 Posts)
kiran2002 Tue 11-Aug-15 21:48:54


This is my first post here! My DS is going to attempt SET in sep and we are going in DIY route. He did sutton and wallington mocks and fared very well.

After seeing those positive results we began to think abt second stage tests.However couldn't find any info on them anywhere.

My biggest concern is second stage eng test- creative writing. As eng is not my mother-tongue ,I was never able to help him much with his writing tasks at home.

Could someone let me know the format of these tests pls. Is there any choice in creative writing section? How much he needs to write? etc.

Hoping to see some replies.

Thanks for reading,

Ladymuck Wed 12-Aug-15 14:44:20

Typically there is no choice. For wilsons the format over the last couple of years is that the boys are given something to read and are then asked to write something related to the information (2013 was a newspaper report, 2014 was a persuasive letter). Usually allowed 50-55 minutes, so expect around 3 sides of A4 as a response. Sutton typically requires 2 pieces of writing, at least one of which will be non- fiction eg a letter to the council, or an essay on what you would do if you were prime minister. I think an hour is allowed for both pieces of writing so I would expect 1.5-2 sides of A4 for each piece. Planning is essential, especially for Wilsons where many boys simply finish very quickly having not written enough. So the writing is less about "story writing" and more about being able to write in appropriate styles/tone/formality.

Good luck!

kiran2002 Thu 13-Aug-15 09:43:03

Thank you so much Ladymuck for giving us a great insight. I can see we've yet to do more work on this.
Are there any specific topics to focus on for second stage maths test? I gather they are mainly 'problem solving' .But is there anything else we need to know?
thanks alot once again for a quick and informative response.


Ladymuck Thu 13-Aug-15 14:11:23

The 2nd stage maths paper will be wordy problems as well as the topics which aren't easy to test via multiple choice - data and geometry. There are plenty of independent school papers online - the Manchester Grammar ones are tough but well worth doing. Bear in mind that many published papers will have easier questions to start with testing basic arithmetic but for Sutton/Wilsons arithmetic is usually covered in the SET. Usually the Sutton maths paper is harder than the Wilsons one.

kiran2002 Thu 13-Aug-15 15:18:56

so is it better to practise these manchester maths papers before SET then? I am trying to figure out what my DS should do after the SET day in preparation for stage 2.

Is it possible to find answers for these indie papers? I could see for many indie papers there r no answers provided.

BTW, I showed your earlier msg to my DS and he was not at all confidant that he could write that much for writing essays. And he tried to write a book review and a recount task today; he managed to write 1.5 A4 pages in 25 mins for each piece.It boosted his confidence. Thank you so much. Now we have to focus on quality!

You are amazing ladymuck.Thanks for all your help.


SelfRaisingFlour Thu 13-Aug-15 17:34:57

My son is at Wilson's and he laughed when I asked him if he wrote 3 pages for his creative writing test for Wilson's. He did it the year they had to write a newspaper report. He said he wrote much less than that.

My son's maths may have pulled his overall score up, but I would worry more about quality than quantity with the creative writing.

Ladymuck Thu 13-Aug-15 18:18:22

Agree that the quality is most important, but many boys fell down when they stopped writing within 30 minutes of so of a 55 minute paper, so the OPs question as to "how much" isn't a bad one. If you know roughly how much you can write in a certain amount of time then it helps when planning the piece. Wilsons have now increased the weighting on the English paper from memory since that sitting.

Manchester Grammar has the answers on their website too I believe. The format will be similar to the second round paper. You're probably best at using the GL or First Past the Post multiple choice maths papers to practice the maths for SET.

kiran2002 Fri 14-Aug-15 22:08:16

Before my DS read ladymuck's msg on 'how much' ,he spent an hour writing a one side A4 playscript. After he realised how much is expected of him,he tried again - in 25 mins he was able to write 1.5 A4 with the same quality!

Of course in both the cases, he needed to work on quality aspect, though.So we are working on - format,varied sentences,vocabulary,punctuation,organisation of text n spelling. Did I miss anything?

Manchester maths papers labelled 'arithmetic' so I thought he should do them before the SET. they don't seem to have questions on data and geometry.


Ladymuck Sat 15-Aug-15 00:28:21

Have a look at the section B papers - they certainly cover geometry and data. Obviously you have to pass SET before round 2 is an option, but it isn't too early to take a look at these papers.

user1471860434 Mon 22-Aug-16 11:22:54

Ladymuck, what style of writing did wilsons have in 2015 second stage examination

user1471860434 Tue 23-Aug-16 07:01:55

LM, what type of writing did sutton grammar have in their 2014 and (if you could) 2015 smile

SaturdaySurprise Tue 23-Aug-16 09:02:41

My younger son did the Sutton/Wilson's tests last year and is going to Wilson's next month. My older son is also at Wilson's. It doesn't really matter what the previous tests were. They try to do something different each year so the children can't have pre-prepared answers. As far as I remember for both tests, the boys had to read a text and write the story from a different viewpoint.

Your child needs to practice writing in different styles - newpaper reports, diaries, response to just a picture, non-fiction, writing from a different viewpoint. They need to make sure they write in a descriptive way and use metaphors, similes, quotations, adjectives etc.

Good luck.

user1471860434 Tue 23-Aug-16 11:27:23

SaturdaySurprise, do you remember what exactly the topic was and how much your younger son wrote.
Thanks for the reply wink

nicp123 Tue 23-Aug-16 20:51:26

Topics are changed every year, never heard of tests being repeated or shared by the Sutton Consortium. The number of pages of writing is irrelevant as the Head of Sutton Grammar mentioned at an Open Evening... examiners will look if the candidates followed the instructions of the tasks & award the marks taking into account the candidates' planning, quality of writing and vocabulary. It is important that your child is confident with spelling, punctuation and grammar.
I recommend you buy from Amazon the book 'Year 6 Writing Models' by Pie Corbett.
It is a very good 'self-help' book written in a clear way that your child will understand and has everything he needs to know before the exam...
you can also find the Kindle version but the paperback is better in my DS's opinion. Good luck!

user1471860434 Wed 24-Aug-16 15:38:21

What topics were in the SET? How many questions were there.
How do you prepare for maths both stages?confused

user1471860434 Wed 24-Aug-16 16:40:39

Need info urgent. confused

SaturdaySurprise Wed 24-Aug-16 21:26:01

Is your son doing the SET on the 14th of September? Have you only just started preparing? If so, it's rather late.

Anyway, the test papers are taken back after the exam. Parents never see them and we only get limited information from the children. We don't know exactly what is in it. Schools do their own tests and don't release past papers.

Try Bond Books and practice papers in English, comprehension and maths from WH Smiths or Amazon. You could try the old level 6 SATS maths books.

RukshanaR Mon 04-Sep-17 18:56:00

Hi, ladylike do you know if it's okay to use the Manchester grammar school papers as they write it's for MGS pupils only? They look very helpful for my son.
Thank you

Ladymuck Mon 04-Sep-17 19:01:08

They're useful practice for the second round tests. Obviously the exact same questions won't be used, but there are only so many ways that you can test KS2 material.

11plusmadness Tue 26-Sep-17 21:04:18

Hi everybody
I am trying to prepare my son for the second stage Wilsons test but I really don't know what to prepare? Does this test have a comprehension and creative writing ? Or do they only do creative writing ?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Ladymuck Wed 27-Sep-17 11:08:08

Nobody knows for certain as this is the first year that SGS and Wilsons have combined their 2nd round, but both schools focussed on writing over comprehension previously. Wilsons would look for a single piece of writing in response to information provided (which in a sense also tests comprehensions) whereas SGS would often ask for a couple of shorter pieces of writing.

11plusmadness Wed 27-Sep-17 12:07:18

Thanks so much Ladymuck. You have been very helpful. I had been starting to look at the Manchester grammar comprehensions which are very tricky. Obviously with a week to go I would rather focus on writing in that case as I think as you say writing is likely what they will be looking at.

RukshanaR Wed 27-Sep-17 14:10:36

Hi all, I have just discovered that Whitgift school also have sample papers which may help your son. All I can say is it's very, very competitive. Good luck.

Wimbles101 Wed 27-Sep-17 15:23:36

I doubt the Whitgift papers will be of the right standard. I would agree the Manchester Grammar Papers are good to try

MrsPatmore Wed 27-Sep-17 15:42:24

Can't quite remember if it was Wilsons or Sutton last year, but the creative writing was a persuasive letter in the second round.

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