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Disruptive bottom set pupil sent to do their work in top set

(23 Posts)
TheyreMadITellYouMaaaad Wed 15-Jul-15 12:32:25

A Y7 child in dd's class has apparently been so disruptive in French lessons that he has been sent to do his bottom-set work in top set.

Please explain the point of this to me!

It is bothering dd because this boy has been bugging her, and now she is more exposed to him. Just to clarify 'bugging', on Monday he repeatedly called her liar and spoilsport in front of the class, and encouraged others to join in, he repeatedly flipped her the middle finger at the same time.

For dd top set is a refuge from his attentions.

RB68 Wed 15-Jul-15 13:01:33

It may be that this teacher has more experience or is better at dealing with this boy - or even has more time to - as top sets tend to be well behaved and quiet in comparison to lower sets. If there are more than one disruptive pupils or pupils that kick off against one another this would be a valid way or working. However, if that then backfires and causes issues in this class then it needs to be addressed. It could of course be down to the teacher being head of subject or something as well.

How is she dealing with it all - in terms of what is she doing? I would be of the view of to keep well away and if that is proving difficult then a word with the appropriate teacher to ask to help her achieve that wouldn't be amiss

noblegiraffe Wed 15-Jul-15 13:14:32

This is normal practice. The top set generally ignore the bottom set kid and do their lesson. The bottom set kid is segregated and not part of the lesson. If they try to mess around the top set teacher will be really pissed off and there would be hell to pay.

If the bottom set kid even slightly annoys your DD she should report it to the teacher who will deal with it.

I've never seen it be a problem.

TheyreMadITellYouMaaaad Wed 15-Jul-15 14:14:36

I had no idea that this was a normal thing to do!

Nonetheless, I'm glad it's at the end of the year.

Yes, I've told dd to go straight to the lesson teacher if he messes with her.

noblegiraffe Wed 15-Jul-15 14:35:09

We also stick disruptive kids in with sixth form lessons occasionally.

It gives the rest of the bottom set, and the teacher some breathing space, and is better than sending them out to the corridor because in top set they'll be supervised.

The bottom set kid doesn't even usually dare breathe when surrounded by bright, keen top set kids.

BackforGood Fri 17-Jul-15 17:59:38

I agree with others - it's a very sensible, logical move.

As a generalisation - I know someone will come on and tell us about the exception to the rule, but generally top set pupils tend to be more mature and better behaved than bottom set pupils.
They will hope that the other pupils can ignore any disruptive behaviour / have strategies to block it out, whereas in a lower set he's more likely to get a response / rise out of other disengaged pupils.

YeOldTrout Fri 17-Jul-15 21:58:37

sounds like a wave of genius to me

hesterton Fri 17-Jul-15 22:00:45

It could be that the head of department is teaching the top set - many schools move disruptive students to head of department's lesson.

leccybill Fri 17-Jul-15 23:10:56

Standard practice this. In most cases, the bottom set kid is in awe of the top set, and without the audience of their peers, settles down to work.

totallybewildered Sat 18-Jul-15 07:56:39

completely normal, standard procedure.

Your DD does not have to tolerate bullying. She needs to speak to the teacher.

elliepac Sat 18-Jul-15 08:14:30

A completely normal and sensible thing to do. I am a head of department and sometimes have to take troublemakers from other classes to sit in with my classes. By removing from their own lesson it allows their class and teacher to get on with the business of learning and my classes just ignore them and get on with their work because that is what I tell them to do.

As a strategy it really works. Next year in fact we have even placed one troublesome student (bottom set) permanently in a top set with me. He will have none of his friends with him and he will have no-one to play off/show off too. This will help him with his learning. He will see the other students working hard and this gives him something to aspire to and in an atmosphere of hard work he will get pulled along and it will improve his outcomes I guarantee it. Plus it will allow the bottom set to get on. Although in the future your dd must say something if her learning is affected by such a student.

MackerelOfFact Sat 18-Jul-15 08:16:31

Seems like a good idea to me and should take the wind out of the disruptive child's sails - he's gone from being the the naughtiest kid in a class that values disruption, to the thickest kid in a class that values intelligence. Should take him down a peg or two and he might even learn something.

Your DD shouldn't put up with being bullied though. Without an audience he will probably shut up soon anyway.

starfish4 Sat 18-Jul-15 16:52:06

As said before, don't be afraid to report this boy if he is making your dd feel uncomfortable or stopping her from working. The school have their reasons for moving him into top set for now, but it shouldn't be a the expense of the ones who keep their heads down, try to be the best they can and keep out of trouble, ie be doing exactly what the school would wish.

CamelHump Sat 18-Jul-15 22:19:53

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

var123 Sun 19-Jul-15 06:14:26

I tell my DCs that a big advantage of working hard is that the top set tends not to have the disruptive pupils. Like buying a first class ticket I.e. no guarantees but its worth the extra expense for some.
This policy simply takes away this and puts the needs of the disruptive child first.
Its no use saying tell the teacher if he has disrupted lessons or bullied because by then the damage is done.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Sun 19-Jul-15 07:56:06

We do this but only into sixth form lessons because there is no chance of the disruptive child finding anyone to intimidate in a sixth form lesson. Quite the opposite. I have seen sixth formers put badly behaved students firmly in their place by peer pressure.

It's always a one off and not a permenant move. And the disruptive kids hate it.

From what you are saying, this sounds like it's more than once

YoungJoseph Sun 19-Jul-15 08:11:11

What happens to a disruptive top setter then? They do exist, I've seen them.

Another reason to dislike setting as it's seen as a haven for clever kids, the thickos just have to put up with any old shit.

wannabestressfree Sun 19-Jul-15 08:17:14

Setting has to be done as the work is diferentiated. We have core/ extend. Our safe room can be a top set and sometimes a lower one. It's a last resort to move a child but sometimes we have to- particulary near the end of term. They are away from friends and their target audience. If someone comes in my class they are treated with disdain.
We should have a system where children are set on data alone but sadly we don't- behaviour is a factor particularly further up the school.

RedHelenB Sun 19-Jul-15 09:01:58

She should ignore him. He will stop if there is no audience. Sounds like the teacher will make sure the others DOn't join in. Also agree that it is unfair to expect bottom sets to solely be the ones to put up with him!!

CamelHump Sun 19-Jul-15 10:33:06

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheMoonOnAStick15 Sun 19-Jul-15 10:43:35

Happens at my dc's school. Her GCSE class was becoming so disrupted she couldn't hear what the teacher was saying. I did complain.

ravenAK Sun 19-Jul-15 11:07:56

we have a Time Out timetable - in any given period there are two classes within the Department to which disruptive students can be sent - chosen because they are top set, or taught by one of the better classroom managers. Usually if you need to Time Out a student you pick the class with a different year group.

Generally it works pretty well. Next line of defence is Red Card - if the kid prats about after being Timed Out, OR if whatever they were doing in their original class is serious enough for the teacher to not think Time Out is appropriate (eg. swearing at/threatening someone, throwing something that could actually cause injury), the teacher sends a sensible kid down to Pastoral Base with a Red Card. Pastoral Leader for that year group then removes them to Isolation room for rest of day & the following day.

TheyreMadITellYouMaaaad Sun 19-Jul-15 14:04:33

Dd says that he tried it on at first, but is not disruptive in top-set French any more. He is still disruptive in unset lessons. But he has stopped targeting her and is now just generally a pain.

Roll on the summer holidays - he probably needs the break, too!

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