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Biometrics, stay alert!

(33 Posts)
Thomouse Sun 25-Jan-15 16:31:14

Something to watch out for is the Biometrics option (and it IS an OPTION!) being introduced into schools. Supposedly to ease dinner Q's and Library access. What you need to watch, is that you have inadvertantly signed up to a whole child profiling system running in the background. To include the recording of everything from psychological problems, who they sit with to finger print recognition, palm print, iris recognition, academic performance, general behaviour etc, etc.
It's an open back door to watching and recording your children from cradle to grave.
Just because your school ISN'T doing it now, doesn't mean they won't slip in the extras later.
The good news; It comes under the Data Protection act, Government guidelines, which allow one parent alone or the child / children to withdraw from the scheme. The school HAS TO HAVE an alternative system for you to use! It is also coveredby; "The duties on schools in the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 set out in
this advice come into effect from 1 September 2013."
To see an example Google Minted Box Education.
This group created the Website for the Company doing the catering for the Secondary/comprehensive school in New Milton, Hants. I suspect the catering company is using their finger print scanning equipment.
Just a bit too cosy?

TeenAndTween Sun 25-Jan-15 16:40:35

Can you explain more clearly what you are actually worried about?

Schools obviously need to record academic performance and behaviour. Having that linked to SEN or whatever makes perfect sense.

DD's school also uses fingerprint recognition technology for the canteen. To do this, it doesn't of course store the actual fingerprint, only a code generated when the print was originally registered.

PeaStalks Sun 25-Jan-15 16:50:08

Oh just chill. It's a simple way of paying for dinners.

PotteringAlong Sun 25-Jan-15 16:52:55

I think you're a bit overly invested in this. It doesn't store their actual fingerprint, it's just an easy way of buying a sandwich.

Thomouse Sun 25-Jan-15 17:06:55

Try and move past "finger print."
Try and think about that nearly useless word Democracy or try Transparency.
If I said to you prisoners on Death Row had less detail recorded about them, as an example, would that mean anything to you?
Or how about you read in the Newspapers that the East German Stasi had been recording the the whole life cycle of their children from cradle to grave?

Down the road aways, your child's mistakes in junior school or elsewhere, (calling someone a fag, or a lez.) marked them out as unsuitable for certain careers?

You're going to tell me "they wouldn't do that and anyway, it's supposed to be destroyed when they are 18 or leave college."
Yes, for how much longer and would you know if they did change it?
I'd liketo know which responders to this, as we go along, are actually involved in it.
Please, just look at Minted Box Education, and use your imagination a little.
It's only a blessed dinner Q or Library for goodness sake, they're not trying to break into Fort Knox!!

TeenAndTween Sun 25-Jan-15 17:23:19

Personally I think there are much bigger things to be worried about (if you so choose) than some school software making access to information about a child easier for teachers.

How about
- mobile phone records
- all the info people give away on facebook and the internet incl mumsnet
- Tesco club-cards and the like
- credit card info

However, 'luckily' big computer projects joining up data are notoriously awful, as people over spec and things get over complicated etc. This is why if you have an accident in Newcastle they won't be able to tell from your records in Dorset that you are allergic to nuts. Or why children end up slipping through child protection nets because info from school, social services or whatever isn't joined up, especially when a child moves area. Or why even different government departs aren't very good a sharing information.

So, why so worried about this particular piece of potentially useful technology?

TeenAndTween Sun 25-Jan-15 17:24:44

And actually, if there was more joined up info, maybe my DD's school would have spotted trends across subjects in where she was struggling, rather than waiting for me to point them out?

basildonbond Sun 25-Jan-15 17:49:55

Do you wear a tin foil hat, thomouse?

Thomouse Sun 25-Jan-15 18:38:36

I'm not in the slightest bit surprised.
A lot of you have lost the ability to think for yourselves and will always take the easy route.
I can't help you but I can help one or two that don't behave like sheep.
I've led you to the it's up to you!

Did you know Russia cut of Europes gas supply about 5 days ago by 60%?
Wasn't on BBC, ITV, Newsnight or the usual papers?
Why do you suppose it wasn't in the press? Discuss amongst yourselves, I've done my bit.
(Google "Russia cuts off gas." if you're mildly curious. Sheep!)
I'm off! (I know, good riddance! Sure.)

TeenAndTween Sun 25-Jan-15 19:41:48


Well indeed, Russia's ability to turn off power to Western Europe is indeed worrying. Which is why I think we should be more self sufficient on power eg windfarms or whatever. That is way more serious than a school using software that integrates different information on its pupils together.

I would also add that Britain is far less agriculturally independent that i think it should be, which I also think is serious.

So why if there is all the serious stuff to worry about, are you posting about software use in schools??

noblegiraffe Sun 25-Jan-15 19:55:51

Palm prints and iris recognition? Which schools are doing that? confused

Schools already keep records of kids' behaviour issues, special educational needs etc, on a database called SIMs. But we need to know them!

fourcorneredcircle Sun 25-Jan-15 19:57:09

Thomouse You're on the wrong forum. AIBU would LOVE to hear from you, they love a good conspiracy theory. and it's helpful for them to hone their debating skills with the odd crackpot, although I'm pretty sure they'll have you for breakfast

Caronaim Tue 27-Jan-15 14:47:11

Ofsted requires pages and pages and pages of records to be kept on each child, but the vast majority is never read back again once it is written. I promise you, no one ever has the time! And finger prints are not stored as finger prints, and are not actually stored on the same system, and can not be related to your child's records, again, because why would anyone waste their time? So what? I actually taught quite a lot about finger prints in forensic science, and had to go through a very long process of formally destroying fingerprint records at the end of every year, goodness knows why, we would never have had the time to actually identify, store or use them.

In fact, so much information is stored now that I doubt any information could actually be found by anybody, it is all lost in interminable pages. You are quite safe.

howtodrainyourflagon Tue 27-Jan-15 18:18:37

What the OP hasn't articulated is that the school or canteen does not store your child's fingerprint. They store something called a "cryptographic hash" of your child's fingerprint.

It is easy to generate a cryptographichash of a fingerprint. It is impossible to recover the fingerprint details from the hash. It's a bit like websites where you have to log in: generally they don't store your password, just a hash of it.

So OP this isn't the evil orwellian dystopia you're painting. And the reason that school has more info on my child than us prisons keep on prisoners is probably more due to lack of education and rehabilitation provision in us prisons than anything else.

TooHasty Wed 28-Jan-15 08:57:56

Biometrics for school dinner/library have been commonplace for at least a is nothing new

skylark2 Wed 28-Jan-15 11:03:55

I'm bemused. What possible difference can whether he signs in with a thumbprint or a mark with a pen make to the records the school keeps on my son's behaviour and achievements? Answer: none.

"The school HAS TO HAVE an alternative system for you to use!"

Of course they do - not every kid has hands. They'll still keep the exact same records on what your kid does. Just as for the kids who use the biometric registration system, it will be accessed based on identifiers like name and date of birth. The only thing their record won't have is the link to the code generated by the biometrics.

"I'd liketo know which responders to this, as we go along, are actually involved in it."

DS's school brought it in this year. It's used for registration (far easier for kids who do early morning clubs / music rehearsals), library books, and the canteen (yay, no more books of tickets!) I think it's great.

I'm afraid you sound hysterical and ignorant, OP, and that in itself would put me off going with any system which you think is better.

FamilyAdventure Wed 28-Jan-15 11:19:28

I was worried about the idea of DS1's school holding fingerprint info, but I thought for myself, did some research and discovered that they actually do nothing of the sort.

Any it is such a fantastic system. No dinner money to be lost/stolen/bullied over, I get to see exactly what "healthy" option he's choosing and how he's spending his money. He can't spend it in the chip/sweet shop, no need to find cash/coins everyday and --I get cashback on my creditcard

Articles regarding gas supply from Russia and the state of agriculture, our dependence on imports are regularly published and yes, that is concerning.

PatriciaHolm Wed 28-Jan-15 11:27:32

Oh look, it's another one of those "all the evidence is there but I'm not going to give you any of it!!" Posters. There was another foiled hatted loon around the other day ranting about the "evidence" of evil social services stealing kids for money. They wouldn't reveal any of their "evidence" either.

AmazingDisgrace Thu 29-Jan-15 19:43:34

OP you really wanted to type sheeple not sheep didn't you wink

TalkinPeace Thu 29-Jan-15 20:14:47

I love our system : I can see that DS had pasta, pizza AND cake for lunch grin

Thomouse Fri 30-Jan-15 13:29:37

yes, just keep adding it all up and what have you now?

TeenAndTween Fri 30-Jan-15 13:33:08

Don't know about anyone else, but I have a well run school with joined up information flow. grin

Thomouse Fri 30-Jan-15 13:33:48

What makes you think a 'programme' is a substitute for an alert teacher?
It's good that you are taking an interest.

Thomouse Fri 30-Jan-15 13:40:40

It's not a theory, this was tried in the '70s, called Catchpoint, was thrown out as a backdoor attempt at an ID card. Tried to use the Climbie' (excuse spelling?) case as a good reason for having it, to protect children (Chip anyone? See Sweden) Was quickly demolished and forgotten the public but not the power brokers.

Thomouse Fri 30-Jan-15 13:47:48

What I'm trying to say is, you'll only be informed of what someone else thinks is good for you. Decisions about your future and more importantly, your children's future are being made in an underhand, undemocratic fashion by faceless people with an unstated agenda. Dinner and library my Rs!

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