Towards the end of Y7, the good, the bad and the ugly grades - independent secondary

[QuintessentiallyQS]

The good news is that ds has settled in well and made friends.

The bad news is that he is lazy, and cant be bothered most of the time, and I have had stress trying to get him to do anything at all this school year.

His grades are not looking good. Mid year exams were mostly bs and cs. He is in top set for maths, and his grades are hovering in the 60s (75% for maths), but as per the schools percentile system, he is in 3,4, and sadly 5 for most.

He has had dententions for not doing history, geography and science home works. He has told me he has no homework as has done in school. He has made an effort with Maths, and that has clearly paid off as he is doing in well and I dont understand his maths at all.

How much importance do I place on Y7? What is the correlation between his grades now and gcse?

I am in two minds. On the one hand, I want him to have a good education. On the other, he needs to work for it. The grades, and his efforts are telling me that either:

1. He has not got the ability to do better
   
2. He cant be bothered
   

The end result is poor grades, and I am not willing to pay for him to have poor grades and hover just above the bottom of the year group.

So, do I move him out of the independent to our local secondary now, or do I wait until the end of Y8?

Is there a point paying astronomical fees when you have a bright child who just doesnt care?

[fourcorneredcircle]

Do his school feel that those grades are appropriate for his ability? Have they told you have he should get?

[QuintessentiallyQS]

I just know they are not happy about his effort.

I also cannot find a table showing me the correlation between percentage marks and, A , b, c, d grades etc.

[marialuisa]

I don't know how selective your DS' school is but at DD's, (girls only, not London but top 20 nationally) girls getting 60% in Y7 and 8 still seem to mainly get A/A*at GCSE. There are lots of very bright kids at the school so being at the bottom of the cohort doesn't automatically mean it's a waste of time them being at the school.

That said, lack of effort would lead to discussions here. We care a lot about effort in and self-motivation. The pre-GCSE years are a good time to learn this and make mistakes about the importance of homework as the marks don't tend to count for anything.

[QuintessentiallyQS]

It is selective, not super selective and listed in the UK top 100. more than 500 applicants to 90 places.

He came from the state sector and has never had such a wide variety of subjects.

I am just not sure there is a point continuing if he is bottom of most.

[marialuisa]

Is being at the bottom getting him down? If he's otherwise happy why is being bottom in a selective school such a problem (especially as there's every chance he will still get good grades when it counts)?

[QuintessentiallyQS]

It is not really getting him down. Possibly because he is working himself up in some subjects, like French and Latin (which he has never had before) and doing really well in Maths (was selected for and very nearly got a medal in the national maths challenge). He was doing well in Physics and Chemistry less well in Biology.

But he is frustrated with history and geography, as well as Ethics. He struggles with English (being Norwegian bilingual and had a 3 year gap while we lived in Norway). We have tantrums over History and Geography, and you'd think these were subjects where he could just read, remember and learn easily? I have bought him historic novels, let him work through Bitesize, given him links and you tube tutorials. But no. He going on a history excursion over half term, maybe it will help.

[motherinferior]

He'd get that range of subjects in any school, surely?

[motherinferior]

I mean, I don't think moving him would solve that one.

[QuintessentiallyQS]

No, moving him wont solve that.

[marialuisa]

Actually I don't think Humanities are subjects that you can just read, remember and learn easily. That approach will get you some sort of mark but not much above 50%. They have to analyse, provide evidence for opinions and write persuasively and fluently. Lots of people, including very able scientists (thinking of my DH!) really struggle with this.

If the real problem is that you'd rather not pay fees, for whatever reason, you need to move him.

[motherinferior]

Well yes, that too. Memorising is all very well but it's only part of it.

[QuintessentiallyQS]

I think I am disadvantaged in helping him, as 1. I went to school a very long time ago (am 42) and 2. I went to school in Norway where it is/was very different to here. History and geography was pure memorizing and churning out.

He is disadvantaged because he left Britain after Y1, and went to school in Norway for three years, where they start school when they are six, so he went from Norwegian Y3 back up to Uk Y5.

I am not quite sure what to do to help him. We spoke today after school and he agrees things have gone downhill since Christmas. But with only one term left, not that much he can do?

[noblegiraffe]

Getting detentions for lack of homework suggests he is lazy and not working to his ability.

If effort/homework were a concern in my state school, he would be put on a report for a couple of weeks to see if he could turn it around, where each teacher writes a short comment against his targets each lesson. This is monitored by the form tutor and signed by the parents.

If homework is an issue, is there a homework timetable you could check and ask to see his homework on the relevant days?

I don't know how long you've got till the summer, in a state school there are 7 weeks left which would give time for monitoring. I wouldn't want to leave it till September.

[adoptmama]

Subjects like history are not about memorising and this is quite possibly why he is having difficulty. It sounds as if he is giving up and thinking he can't do it. Lots of children got the 'I can't be bothered' route when really they are struggling to understand - this way they can feel a bit more in control and preserve their self-esteem. They prefer to 'choose' to fail rather than try and still 'fail'.

I certainly wouldn't be considering changing his schools when it sounds as if he is doing well in lots of areas. Some children are just better at the science/maths route than humanities.

I'd suggest you meet with his tutor and teachers and discuss what he is struggling with (concepts and skills) and see what you can do to target these. History is a language heavy subject and the fact he is bilingual could also be having an impact on him if his social language is good, but his academic language weaker (less of an issue in science and maths areas).

[Eastpoint]

Do you think he is taking longer to settle in than some of the others? Lots of them came up from the junior school and for them the transition is much easier. If he is the only pupil from his old school he has had a lot to take on board & it might just be taking him a while to adjust. He is also having to adjust to bring in a selective school, I don't know whether he was one of the 'top' students before but if he was, & isn't any more he has to figure out who he is.

Has he started to make friends? Does he talk about the other students & meet up with them? Is he socialising too much? I think there are lots of things to think about before you give notice (which you've missed for next term anyway, you're committed to paying fees for the Christmas term if you check the school's terms & conditions). PS 42 with a 11/12 year old makes you young in the private school SW London parenting stakes.

[Sheldonswhiteboard]

I guess no matter how selective a school someone is always going to be in the bottom sets, doesn't mean they aren't going to achieve good results at the end. If he finds some subjects genuinely hard, there may be the opportunity to drop them at options time, not English obviously.
If he is lazy and not doing homework I would set a time each evening for doing it and ask to see it at the end of that time, get a homework timetable from school so you know what should be set each day. I would also speak to school and ask them what they can do to help, they should be working with you, maybe to the point of his subject teachers emailing you to let you know what homework he has been set.

[saintlyjimjams]

Presumably he can drop history and geography fairly soon? Ds2 can drop them both after year 8 if he wants.

In terms of effort will he let you oversee him/organise him? DS2 (also year 7) needs quite a lot of organising because he gets easily distracted by the computer no idea where he gets that from & has always tried to do the bare minimum when it comes to school work. He has exams after half term so I have told him he needs to do some work every day over half term after breakfast. Pick a topic to revise, revise it (I point out books etc to use) then I will test him. I find it slightly irritating to have to be that involved with a 12 year old's work but I want him to know he can do well. He isn't hugely confident with his ability so if he does badly because he's done bugger all he tends to think he's done badly because he's not very good. I thought marching him through some early exams might give him some inkling into his ability.

When he was in year 6 he didn't bother with a lot of homework (and told me he'd done it in school). I didn't find out for about half the year Looking back I think it was because it was topic work (history & geography) & he didn't know what to write! So he avoided it rather than working on it. Now he's a secondary and I know exactly what homework he has to do he has faced up to his fears and does well - he still doesn't like geography and it took him a couple of months to work out what was expected of him for history but he's doing well now.

Do you have a list of his homework (either online or via a planner). I kept a very close eye on ds2's for the first 2 terms - am backing off now as he seems to have got on top of it and organisation is improving.

[Colour2]

It may be worth you finding a private tutor for during the summer holiday who can teach extra English, specifically comprehension. My DD is also bright at maths and science, but finds English much harder. We have found it very helpful with her. The phrase "explain in your own words," struck terror into her previously.

Try and find a tutor who has worked with dyslexic or similar children as they will be more used to teaching from a different direction. Your child is probably not lazy, but genuinely finds the work difficult. The tutor may need to explain from lots of different angles until he eventually "gets it" but it will be worth it.

[Nocomet]

He's a Y7, He has 4 years until GCSEs.

He may well tell history to fuck off long before then. DD1 will certainly kick German into touch, so I refuse to get to heated about detentions for that.

I'm an English loathing scientist. I still have A's for lang and lit (but random grades lower down the school).

Likewise many of the boys I went to school with.

[exexpat]

My DS has a background not dissimilar to yours: moved from state primary to independent secondary in year 7, having spent the first 8 years of his life in Japan. He started school at a bilingual Japanese/English primary at age 5, so a year later than he would have done in the UK, and moved into a British school halfway through year 4, after a year less school than everyone else, coming from a very different system, and also August-born so one of the youngest. However, he is naturally bright and particularly good at maths so had no problems dealing with the work at primary school.

But year 7 was a bit of a shock to him: daily homework (the primary school hadn't done much), lots of new subjects, a need to be much more organised, regular tests and exams etc. He did OK, but his grades at the end of year 7 were a mix of As, Bs and a couple of Cs - he is officially G&T, so that was definitely under performing. However, he is now in yr11, in the middle of GCSEs, and from yr7 to yr11 his grades steadily improved until he got all As/As in his mocks (and got As in the two GCSEs he took last year), and is expected to get all A*s in this year's GCSEs, except perhaps in German.

I am not a pushy parent, and my view was that he had to learn for himself that effort is very strongly correlated with achievement - it took a couple of years to click, but by the end of yr8 he realised that when he did actually put a bit of effort in and do the work, his grades dramatically improved. The school ethos is very much that it is good to do well academically, which helps. One of the main reasons I decided against our local well-regarded comp was that friends' older sons had under-performed there due to a feeling that it wasn't cool to try too hard, and I feared DS would use his natural intelligence to coast through doing OK but not as well as he was capable of doing.

I think you are being a bit hasty talking about pulling your DS out already - year 7 is a big transition time, and things don't get serious for another couple of years. Of course it is possible that the school is not right for him, but I don't think academic underperformance in year 7 is necessarily a sign that he's going to waste all the money you are paying for fees.

[Takver]

Another perspective - my dd studies History / Geography / RS in Welsh, (her second language). Even though she's been in Welsh medium education all through primary, she definitely still finds it harder than her English medium classes, and doesn't get such good grades. IMO (and, more to the point, in hers!) the advantages of working in the two languages outweigh the negatives, but that doesn't mean it isn't an effort.

As it isn't your DS's choice to work in his second language, its just force of circumstances, I can see why in true adolescent style he might 'sulk' by not putting in that effort to the full extent.

[QueenQueenie]

Is he happy there?
Did he want to go to this selective / fee paying school or was that what you thought was best and decided?
I'm trying to imagine the conversation you might have with him along the lines of "We don't think you're doing well enough / trying hard enough to justify us paying for you to stay at this school so you're moving somewhere else where it's free...".
By all means have a conversation about how important it is to try hard / do homework etc, but you'd need to be doing that wherever he went to school surely?
Year 7 is still very young and a long way off GCSEs. It sounds as though he's had a lot on his plate in terms of big changes in his life and needs some time, space and understanding to settle down and adjust to things.
To be honest you sound rather harsh in your op and rather unsympathetic to how he may be feeling. Education is also about much more than GCSE grades... Presumably you thought the ethos of the school and his likely peers would suit him and be a good fit - and that hasn't changed in a year.
Do you seriously think he should have to cope with starting all over again somewhere new next term?

[bettys]

Yr 7 is a huge change, and more so if you go from state to independent (as my ds did). It takes boys a while to find their feet. As someone else said, GCSEs are a way off yet. Personally I wouldn't worry too much. Yr 9 is more important as they make their GCSE choices then.

[bettys]

Plus it sounds like he is still passing everything in the 60s, so not exactly failing, is it?
As Queenqueenie says, school is about a lot more than just grades, and if he is getting a lot out of it in other ways then that is an important consideration too.