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Gifted and talented?

(30 Posts)
Tartanpaint Mon 03-Mar-14 18:51:55

Out of interest really, what is considered to be gifted and talented?

AChickenCalledKorma Mon 03-Mar-14 19:32:04

At DD1's secondary, it is the top 10% in any individual subject. They are quite explicit about it and people move on and off the register, depending how they are getting on. Personally, I think it devalues the notion of being "gifted" or "talented" which really ought to be a much higher threshold (but I'm happy that there is a member of staff with responsibility to encourage the more able students to keep aiming high and not just coast along).

Tartanpaint Mon 03-Mar-14 20:20:48

Thanks that's very interesting. Is it normally the top 10%

Iamnotminterested Mon 03-Mar-14 21:20:13

Top 10 % 'gifted' ie academically - ridiculous phrase - top 5% 'talented' ie sports, drama, art, music etc.

Agree with AChicken, devalues what is really the definition of gifted into merely 'quitegoodatasubjectcomparedtotherestoftheyear.'

PottyLottie123 Mon 03-Mar-14 21:48:50

Totally agree with you, Iamnot. When I was a SENCO a million years ago, "gifted and talented" meant children who could not easily be differentiated for/ group taught in a classroom setting, i.e WAY above the "top" ability group in the class, not just the top 10% of whoever shows up! I have taught some very bright children who were 'quitegoodatasubjectcomparedtotherestoftheyear' and were in the "top" group but were not "gifted and talented". I can count on one hand the number of truly "gifted" children I've taught over many years. But, as Achicken said, the one thing it does do is make sure that able children can't "coast".

littledrummergirl Mon 03-Mar-14 23:19:59

Ds1 was never g&t but he was the highest scoring child in the grammar tests. There was always that one person who was fab in one subject. Ds1 was a good all rounder.

Phaedra11 Tue 04-Mar-14 09:05:49

Different schools seem to have different ways of identifying G&T children. At my DSs state secondary school, they use the CAT results and it is set in stone with no moving off or onto the register. Whilst this seems truer to the original ideal of making sure more able kids were supported regardless of their social background, I think our school has got G&T badly wrong.

DS2 (in year 8) in on the register but DS1 (year 11) isn't. It has become increasingly obvious over the years, that in DS1's year the kids that were going on trips to universities etc weren't always the highest performing ones. The thing that really infuriated me recently, was finding out that the G&T group were taken out of school to attend a meeting at the sixth form college where DS1 has a conditional place, to talk about A level options, Russell Group universities and university expectations. Many children with high predicted GCSE results and in top sets were excluded from this whilst some pupils who attended are now working at an average level. The idea is probably to raise their motivations but I don't believe the school should be excluding those who have shown their potential after those tests in Year 7.

Theas18 Tue 04-Mar-14 09:15:12

No idea but I've heard the top 10% thing and it's a bit bonkers really!

My kids schools don't seem to bother much with it TBH, though I guess they kind of assume as a super selective that pretty much all the kids are ? (the eldest, 10yrs ago was sent to some NAGHTY stuff but it wasn't that helpful so she didn't really bother, then when DS started it'd been dropped).

I don't think you really know where your kids lie in this spectrum till they are adults- for a 7yr old from an articulate educated family to have a reading age of 11+ isn't really that exceptional is it? Just normal for circumstances. His classmate who maybe doesn't speak English at home and parents can't really help with reading, let alone vocabulary extension etc will be doing well to have a reading age of 7 at 7yrs and may out pace the first child by 18.... for instance.

ThreeBeeOneGee Tue 04-Mar-14 09:25:59

Do they mean the top 10% nationally? If so, then selective schools would have a situation where every child is G&T?

If they mean the top 10% of the children at that school, then G&T means completely different things depending on the intake at your child's school.

senua Tue 04-Mar-14 10:40:35

Scenario 1: Let all Comps identify pupils' strengths and weaknesses, do setting and provide for the most able pupils in a thing called top set. If we do this then there is no need for naice MC families to flee to Grammars or Independents.
MN: hurrah!

Scenario 2: Let's do the same thing and call it G&T.
MN: boo!

hmm

MrsSquirrel Tue 04-Mar-14 11:29:12

I just think of it as being a different use of the word 'gifted' to how it is used in normal language, a sort of school jargon. I am glad my dd's school is providing appropriate work for her and ensuring that she continues to make progress. It is a good thing that they have policies in place to provide for that.

I don't care if she is called g&t, bright, clever, high learning potential or whatever. I do care if she is happy at school and learning stuff.

wineoclocktimeyet Tue 04-Mar-14 11:30:06

DS2 has been identified but that's cos he is working at 4b level maths in Year 2 -although apparently there is no money for G&T in the infants so he has to wait till next year for help.

wineoclocktimeyet Tue 04-Mar-14 11:31:15

Sorry, just realised this was in secondary schools - just ignore me smile

anklebitersmum Tue 04-Mar-14 11:34:43

wineoclocktimeyet (loving the name)

You're lucky that there's a budget at all. Despite most of the children at the biters school recieving a premium payment they 'don't believe' in G&T so there are no resources available be it infant or junior sad

anklebitersmum Tue 04-Mar-14 11:39:59

blush me too

Still, in DS1's school it's the ones who are consistently achieving grades that are markedly above the 'norm' for the rest of the year group who are marked, where necessary for G&T treatment. which is mainly extra clubs, website info and inter-school tournaments

Kez100 Tue 04-Mar-14 18:34:28

If there is a movement of children out of the group then they are neither gifted nor talented. It is just school speak (probably originally invented by the politicians to make parents 'happy').

Phaedra11 Tue 04-Mar-14 19:06:22

I thought the original idea of G&T was to identify children early on as exceptionally able and then ensure they were given the support to fulfil their potential, no matter what sort of social/family advantages they had or had not.

I respect my DSs school for trying to do this through the year 7 CAT test but am annoyed that they have not provided any information at all about A levels, universities or Russell Group universities to any of the kids who aren't on the register even though there are many in that situation who are in top sets and predicted excellent GCSE results.

If it wasn't for Mumsnet, neither DS or I would know anything about RG unix, facilitating subjects etc and DS would be quite happily arranging to do a set of A levels completely unsuitable for the competitive career he currently has ambitions for.

lljkk Tue 04-Mar-14 19:14:13

The idea of G&T in last 10 yrs is to identify the top 10% and make someone accountable for their progress; by definition in English state schools, the term is supposed to mean the top 5-10%. Not the super exceptional.

I haven't heard if any local schools who do G&T (but maybe that's because my kids don't qualify).

Phaedra11 Tue 04-Mar-14 19:24:03

At my DSs school, it is not 10%. There are ten classes in each year and the G&T group is quite small. They don't have a whole class worth of G&T kids.

Phaedra11 Tue 04-Mar-14 19:27:42

Just wanted to add that I'm not anti- G&T and my younger DS is on the register, just annoyed that it's used at our school to gauge who would benefit from advice about universities!

natellie1970 Wed 05-Mar-14 15:42:10

They tried to used CAT scores with my dd (she had 109) to say she wasn't gifted, until I spoke to the learning manager and pointed out that in maths and science she had got the top marks in the year. They only let them go up to 6b and only 3 in a year with 150 kids had got that level. That put her in the top 2% (see I can do maths too!!!) turns out the kid sat next to her when she did the CATs sang the whole way through and when he was told off he just sang quieter!!!

spababe Wed 05-Mar-14 17:47:38

The school that my DS go to has specific criteria for each subject that they use to identify G&T. G&T pupils do not have to meet all the criteria for that subject. The register will identify to teachers which of the criteria they are G&T in eg may not be a G&T reader but being a good debater might make someone G&T in English. The criteria is posted on the school website.
They are registering the progress of G&T to make sure they make expected progress and are not just 'left to get on with it' in lessons.
They also hold special events eg attending local science fair or meet the author.
They have challenge days eg edit a newspaper with deadlines.
I am really pleased with the school offering and this is a State Comprehensive.

Picturesinthefirelight Wed 05-Mar-14 17:59:56

It's ridiculous really as whether you are gifted or not friends on the abilities of others in your school. It should be a national thing.

Every child in dds school is recognised as talented though. It takes children from all over the UK & occasionally abroad.

steview Wed 05-Mar-14 18:18:59

ThreeBeeOneGees - yes the guidance was that it should be the top 10% of students in each given school so you are right to state that being G&T means very different things in different schools.

The rationale was that, in schools of any type, the most able (within the context of the school) had a tendency to not be stretched and challenged enough as the school focused on 'the middle'.

For what it'd worth we identify using the following criteria:

Level 1:

Individual subject nominations
Primary School nominations
Extra-curricular nominations
CATS tests
KS2 SATS tests (top 10% nationally)

If a student comes up on at least 3 measures they hit our G&T list and they stay there - we monitor the progress of those students to ensure that they are making the progress we expect of them in a global sense.

Individual subjects monitor the progress of the students they have nominated to ensure appropriate challenge exists.

Where a student is clearly working at a different level to other students then they are put on our Level 2 list (which is very sparse) and that involves setting up bespoke programmes to ensure that they are challenged - for example a mathematician who has a monthly meeting with the Head of Maths and a local University lecturer to set up projects for him to work on and receive ongoing support with or students who are performing at a very high level in sport/music/drama who have an adjusted timetable to take account of their extra-curricular commitments.

user1466157473 Fri 17-Jun-16 13:47:24

Hello Need help
I am a new member
My son 2 half will be exclu from is nursery by the director because in talented and gifted. He need a one to one. NO support
for him.
Do not know what to do? No text as been done on him to qualify him as a talented and gifted. Can a nursery can exlu a child because of is advantage?
Where is any nursery or school or college for talented and gifted child?
Did montessori home tutoring is good if yes do you know on around South East of London?

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