City of London Boys 10+ versus dame Alice owens 11+(11 Posts)
Quandary time. DS2 has managed to get a place at CLSB at 10+ (we were using it as a mock for DAO) and don't know whether to take it or pass and take our chance in sept. Anyone experienced this situation before?
Bumping as interesting question.
We are in roughly same neck of the woods. Didn't do CLB because we didn't love it when we saw it so didn't want to introduce this dilemma. However, v clever boy from school did and didn't get in so I presume your son did really well. DAO always a big lottery as you never know how many places there will be and even the cleverest don't get in.
Does your name mean you have 5 children? In which case I can see why DAO would be appealing…
Presumably you like CLB. Would it be your second choice? Would you consider taking the risk of him only being there for a year?
In response to your exact question, no direct experience. But I would have thought that you would need to be very happy with SMM or HG as a back up plan to give up the CLSB place. You call the DC "DS2" - is there an elder DS and does that not provide any steer? Only thing I know about DAO is that there is virtually NO movement on waiting lists - it seems no one ever gives up a place. So it's in from the start or nought.
Other 11+ schools for boys in the independent sector include Forest, Highgate, maybe UCS, and not much else. Good luck with your decision.
My understanding is that although there are a minimum of 20 places for Islington kids, a large part is taken up by Islingon siblings. Let's guess that leaves 10 places available for music/academic intake. I hear that well north of a 1,000 go for the 65 academic places and a huge chunk from Islington. Chances might be well below 5%. But it's not all down to chance is it? Your son is clearly bright enough to get a place at City. So why shouldn't he get one at DAO? The stats at City are different though. I think about 120 went for 40 places (including my son). 33% sounds better than 3%!!! It would be a big gamble on how your son does on that day and how many others like him are also going to do well that day.
Not sure about the ethics of this but it is practically possible to keep your options open. You could accept the 10+ and still try for DAO.
- Register by 13 Jun for the test
- 1 Sept DAO verbal reasoning test
- 2 Sept Term starts at City
- Sat 6 Sept DAO English and maths exam
- 17 Oct DAO test results known
However, the idea of my son spending 1 year settling into a school, only to be hawled out into another isn't appealing at all.
It's like going to the roulette table!!
How about asking City for the test results and ranking of the exam? If he was in the top 10 then maybe that helps with some confidence for DAO. If he was in the next 20-30 you might have a different view of his chances. I assume, like my boy, he didn't do well enough for an academic scholarship.
I guess the gist of all the comments above is, it feels like too much of a risk to just bet on a DAO 11+ place as a secondary transfer strategy. If it comes off great, but definitely feels like a solid Plan B would be needed - whether that is City from Year 6, another indie at 11+, or local state.
Around 220 sat last year for 10+ for 40 places, this year the numbers were higher , not sure how many exactly, it has been going up every year. Does the school give out the ranking if you have passed, I have heard they give a detailed feedback including raking if there was no offer ?
Academic scholarship may not be just based on performance, there could be other factors. This isn't always transparent as advised to me by other parents who have extensive experience on the subject ,though not for City, but for other top indies.
Re the question, it is whether as a family how much risk you are willing to take.? Not an easy one, but depends on acadamic strength - exceptional compared to bright, Is the child (and as a family) happy to work hard at this pace or higher for another 7 months, Or is the child ok to spend one year and then move, what do you really think about city etc.
We are in a similar situation, but finally made the decision to accept, mainly because we have a low risk appetite.
Good luck with what ever decision you take, it is tough and I know as a parent you don't want to look back and think differently.
At the Open day this year they said 168 sat the 10+ at City last year. Where did you hear 220+? Also, I did a rough count of the boys coming out to be collected on exam day and struggled to count more than 120. There was only 1 exam day/session. I thought that numbers were falling with the credit crunch.
I suppose it's all academic really (forgive the pun) as our boys are not just "statistics", but it does help to guide us.
If you can afford to go private, why not do that and leave the free places for those for whom that is not an option?
No guarantee he'd get in though - much more competitive to get rare places at state grammars than only competing with the narrow gene pool of the rich.
This was mentioned in the 11+ forum , I remember seeing a link to a formal annual report from the school where the headmaster talks about the numbers and the take up of places. It definitely was upwards of 200+ and increasing every year. I had also thought the numbers should come down due to credit crunch, however it doesn't seem to be the case. City also offers generous bursary /scholarship as they have funding from various sources.
Here is DAOs more transparent figures. Shows 10 places given to Islington residents sitting the exam from 150. Better odds but still long.
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