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L5 in year 6 and year 9

(16 Posts)
LittleMissGreen Thu 20-Feb-14 21:12:07

DS got a level 5 in his year 6 SATS (he would have just scraped it to be fair, he was predicted a level 4 and I worked with him for a couple of months which made him a lot more confident and he got his level 5). He is now in yr7 I have just got back his predicted levels for year 9 and he is on target to get a level 5.
I'm not very au fait with secondary school levels, should he be expected to make one level of progress between yr 6 and 9 - in which case if he is going from a 5c to a 5a I can see that although not expected progress is ok, or is the average expecting 2 levels of progress so he should really be expecting a level 7 (or high level 6) in which case I am quite concerned.
He has been predicted 6s for all his other subjects (got straight 5s in his SATS although a 5c end in all of them).

titchy Thu 20-Feb-14 21:13:42

What subject is the 5 target for?

ReallyTired Thu 20-Feb-14 21:19:19

You son should be expected to make two levels of progress between the start of year 7 and end of year 9. What was your son's christmas report like.

Ds got level 5s in his year 6 SATs and he has been given the target of 7b/7c; He has a mixture of level 6s in other subjects that he has not studied before.

LittleMissGreen Thu 20-Feb-14 21:35:24

Oops sorry - maths

Minime85 Thu 20-Feb-14 21:36:39

good progress is taken as two levels over a key stage

LittleMissGreen Thu 20-Feb-14 21:36:59

His Christmas report was only his behaviour, not how well he was doing. All his teachers were very enthusiastic about how well behaved he is and how well he was doing in parents evening. Although in some they said he needs to learn to put down on paper what he knows not just be able to talk about it - fair comment.

LittleMissGreen Thu 20-Feb-14 21:38:22

sad looks like there might be an issue with his maths then.

ReallyTired Thu 20-Feb-14 21:43:34

Children often go backwards in national curriculum levels at secondary as they have so much more to think about. The typical key stage 2 primary school child is spoonfed in comparsion to a secondary school child who has to navigate themselves around a large building and cope with the expecations of 14 teachers.

Primary school SATs are very over inflated. There is difference between getting level 5 in one test and continuely producing level 5 work without any spoonfeeding.

Iamnotminterested Thu 20-Feb-14 22:31:20

ReallyTired - primary school sats are very over inflated. In some cases maybe, but what about the child who is working at a level 6 in year 5?

ReallyTired Thu 20-Feb-14 22:44:24

"ReallyTired - primary school sats are very over inflated. In some cases maybe, but what about the child who is working at a level 6 in year 5?"

Our primary school head and deputy head was forced to resign because staff were fiddling the teacher assessments. Prehaps the level 6 in year 5 was not accurate. National tests that are externally marked give a better indication of levels.

I think a key stage 2 level 6 tests different skills to a key stage 3 level 6. In someways I think its harder to get a level 6 on a key stage 2 exam paper. A level 6 in a key stage 3 enviroment requires higher skills of independent working and movitation rather than high ablity.

Secondary school teachers can only assess the work that is actually produced. If a child chooses to produce dross standard work when they are capable of level 6 work then they will be assessed at being level 3.
In a secondary school enviroment a teacher may teach 300 children a week. It is a feat for a secondary school teacher to know all the children's names, yet alone whether they are slacking.

LittleMissGreen Thu 20-Feb-14 22:47:32

We are in Wales so the yr6 SATS are teacher assessed - I guess it's possible he was really only a level 4, but I would have thought that would have been a secure level 4 - I gave him some of the English practice SATS papers (as in Maths papers from England) and he was scoring a high L4 at the start and went on to a low-mid L5 in May/June time. Would you be thinking that to be predicted a L5 in year 9 he was really only a level 3 in yr6? or possibly a low L4?
Being teacher assessed I wasn't completely confident in his SATs grades, although he did come out with above average in his Welsh national numeracy tests - standardised tests introduced for every child in yr2+ in Wales last year.

AHardDaysWrite Thu 20-Feb-14 22:49:33

In my experience (secondary English) the levels from primary tend to be inflated. I don't find many " level 5" year 7s who are really level 5.

Op, though, to answer your earlier question, minimum expected progress is 2 levels over a key stage. Level 5 at ks2 would give a MEP of level 7 in year 9 and grade B at GCSE. If your school isn't setting level 7 as your DS' target, ofsted will haul them over the coals when they next visit.

LittleMissGreen Thu 20-Feb-14 22:49:41

I think a key stage 2 level 6 tests different skills to a key stage 3 level 6. In someways I think its harder to get a level 6 on a key stage 2 exam paper. A level 6 in a key stage 3 enviroment requires higher skills of independent working and movitation rather than high ablity
That's helpful - thanks smile

LittleMissGreen Thu 20-Feb-14 22:50:36

Ofsted have just left, well about 2 weeks before I got his predicted levels.

noblegiraffe Fri 21-Feb-14 12:03:34

It is highly unlikely that a child who got a level 5 at KS2 is genuinely expected, in Y7, to only get a level 5 in Y9. Even if he got a level 4, you'd expect a target of level 6.

Two possibilities spring to mind.
1) there has been an error when setting the target. Query this with the school, as otherwise this would indicate unacceptably low expectations, which would be very unusual.
2) the target is for the end of Y7, not the end of Y9.

I'm a secondary maths teacher, if that helps!

LittleMissGreen Fri 21-Feb-14 13:36:20

Thanks Noble - number 2 could make sense as he is sure he is in the top set. I'll check with the school smile

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