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Tiffin Boys Results

(35 Posts)
Bijlee Tue 22-Oct-13 11:09:17

Just received the results confused no qualifying score mentioned.
Need help to decipher the results.

tiggytape Tue 22-Oct-13 11:24:45

Tiffins is one of those schools that doesn't set a pass mark. You have to wait until March but you can probably make an educated guess if your son for example has beaten the cutoff scores from previous years by a wide margin.

Tiffins offer the places starting with the highest mark first, moving down the list and filling up Year 7 until all the places are gone. The qualifying score will be the score of the last person that is accepted.

Of course, some people will later reject their offers (if they have a scholarship to a private school for example) and then children with slightly lower scores could be offered a place.

If he scored way above last year's cutoff, you can probably relax but if he is closer to it, you will have to wait until March to see if it is enough.

PrettyBelle Tue 22-Oct-13 11:25:29

We received the message too. They said that the final qualifying score has varied between 229 and 223 in the last 5 years.

tiggytape Tue 22-Oct-13 11:29:24

I just looked up last year's numbers for you:

Last year 231 was the score required to get an initial offer.
After movement on the waiting list, boys with a score of 229 eventually got an offer at some stage in the summer term. I am not sure if that is all boys with a score of 229 or just some of them though.

It is still guess work because more boys sat the test this year than last year so that may change things too.

shaq Tue 22-Oct-13 11:39:09

Don't think my DS has made it! Initial score of 173, will probably be revised downwards, as he is October-born.

Not surprised really, as we did no VR/NVR practise, focusing instead on the Maths and English with a view to getting into one of the Sutton Grammars.

Awaiting the WCGS results with bated breath now...

JustAnotherUserName Tue 22-Oct-13 11:44:11

Shaq- neither us. But the score is already age standarised so 173 is what it is. Well short (our DS too who got the average 200).... you will need to be over 232 this year to get the offer (more than 2000 testers, up from 1600 last year).

tiggytape Tue 22-Oct-13 11:45:41

shaq - 173 is his final score. Any adjustment will already have been made. Part of the process of standardising the scores to give a mark out of 140 for each paper involves taking the child's age into account.

In all probability though, 173 is below the qualifying score even going back several years so the odds are possibly against getting an offer. However, if you still like the school, and if you have room on your CAF, you should still list it as nobody knows for certain what will happen with the scores and, if you decide later on to appeal, you will have laready made the application formally (taking the exam isn't the same as applying).

tiggytape Tue 22-Oct-13 11:48:31

Don't list it though if it means bumping off a safe Plan B school.

If you are listing all the Sutton School (x3?) plus Tiffins, you will still want to have room to list one comp that you like (or possibly another selective) and one comp you are certain to get a place at.

Don't list just selective schools on your CAF and, if you need to eliminate one of them, Tiffins is probably going to be that one since it would be a real long shot scoring below 200.

Bijlee Tue 22-Oct-13 12:09:56

Thanks Tiggy,
He scored 216 sad. So no chance there.
We are waiting Wallington results too.

tiggytape Tue 22-Oct-13 12:39:16

Don't feel too down Bijlee. 216 is still an excellent score (well above average in a test that is only really taken by top group boys) and there's every chance he could still score very highly on the Walligton one. The two schools assess totally different things.

shaq Tue 22-Oct-13 13:27:00

Hi Tiggy,

Thanks for the advice! No, I'm not planning on putting Tiffin on the CAF now - it would require a miracle of epic proportions for him to get in with that score! I thought it was worth him sitting the test because it is our closest Grammar (20mins by bus). We focused on the Sutton grammars, as it seemed to be safer in terms of getting in, and it seems to have paid off so far, as he passed the Wilson's test, and we are now waiting for WCGS and the SGS test.

The dilemma that I have is, is it worth putting down Greenshaw? In the sense that is it worth the travel time (around 50 mins)? The travel time for the others (Wilsons, WCGS, Sutton) is around that too, but I can see that it's worthwhile in that case, but for Greenshaw? Will that be much better than my more local options (Coombe boys, Richard Challoner, Southborough).

Would love to hear from others too who have experience of Greenshaw!

cwazycaz Tue 22-Oct-13 14:00:41

Bilgee, 216 is a very good score! there is a lot of competition and many boys are heavily tutored and/or come from preps. A far cry from the school ethos which once opened its doors for ‘some honest poor man’s son’.
good luck for Wallington!!

Bijlee Tue 22-Oct-13 16:59:13

Hi Tiggy, Cwazycaz,
Thanks for the words of encouragement, 216 is good, perhaps not good enough for a place. I will put Tiffin on the CAF but with realistic option in mind for him to go on the waiting list afterwards.
I completely agree with the fact that there are many boys who either come from preps and/or heavily tutored. Competition is too tough!

AmazingDisgrace Tue 22-Oct-13 17:39:44

Bijlee, Be careful that you aren't in effect wasting one of your choices by naming Tiffin. A score of 216 is very unlikely to get a place from the waiting list. Last year the cut off was 231 on allocations day and the waiting list only moved down as far as 229. In recent years I don't think the waiting list has moved further than 223 from a 225 initial cut off. With over 2000 boys sitting for the test this year the initial cut off could be even higher than 231 and sadly the waiting list is not realistically going to go down to 216.

You should congratulate your son on his score though, he did better than over half who sat for the test with 200 being the average score

Hamptonschool Tue 22-Oct-13 17:53:38

Hi people!
My son got 223 and we are considering putting Tiffin on the CAF.
Please advise.

Bijlee Tue 22-Oct-13 17:58:01

Thanks Amazing. Will consider your advise.

hopefullytwicelucky Wed 23-Oct-13 00:53:03

My son got 232. Anybody have a hint on what would be the cut off point this year? My other boy got in some years back with 228 (last on the list...).
Can I hope to be twice lucky?
Any other ways to find out about the cut off mark? Would hate to wait for 5 months...
Anybody in similar position?

tiggytape Wed 23-Oct-13 07:28:52

Any other ways to find out about the cut off mark? Would hate to wait for 5 months

It is totally impossible to find out the cut off mark before March. Not even Tiffins know the cutoff mark yet.

The reason for this is that soon children will submit their forms and the submitted forms will be processed. Nobody yet knows how many children want a place at Tiffins more than any other school.
If the top scoring children in the test all entered other grammar school exams, passed them and prefer those other schools, they won't get offers at Tiffins (they will get offers at the schools they prefer). Therefore the places at Tiffins won't include many of those top scores so the lower scoring children will have more of a chance

On the flip side. If every child who scored 260+ puts Tiffins as their first choice, they will get offered Tiffins leaving less spaces for children on lower scores to get in and the final cutoff mark might end up being quite high.

All you can do is look at the pattern over past years. On 232 you definitely have a chance but, because it depends on what everyone else got and what the children with higher scores put on their forms, nobody can say for certain.

cwazycaz Wed 23-Oct-13 09:29:49

anyone knows what the average was in previous years? the average was 200 this year. is it higher or lower than previous years?

tiggytape Wed 23-Oct-13 09:40:18

The average is always 200 if each score is out of 140 (so out of 280 in total)
That's how they standardise the scores.

They work out the average % all the boys scored on the NVR paper (say the average was 75% this year).
Anyone who got exactly 75% for that paper gets given a score of 100. Anyone who got way above 75% gets a score nearer 140. Anyone with way less than 75% gets a score below 100.
There's some age adjusting too but basically that's how it works.

They do the same with the VR paper - a score of 100 is given to all candidates who got the average % for that test.

This give 2 scores to be added together to give a mark out of 240 where 200 represents the average for that group.

Of course, the average % for NVR last year could have been different. It could have been 85% or 65% but whatever the average % for each paper is, it gets assigned a value of 100. Therefore the boys aren't compared to the % they achieve, they are compared directly to the other boys who took the test.

Bijlee Wed 23-Oct-13 09:44:04

What a system!

tiggytape Wed 23-Oct-13 09:51:12

It does sound a bit mad but you have to remember that the school are testing mostly very bright children to skim off just a few. They can't promise a place to everyone who (for example) scores 85% or they might get 600 pupils in Year 7!

So basically the boys are competing directly against one another not to get a high percentage but to get a higher percentage than all the rest.

The standardisation process helps to show the school what the average mark for that group of children is (and it might be a high average since they are all tutored / very bright or both). The school are only interested in taking the children who are above that average starting with the ones who are as far above it as possible and working downwards until all the spaces are full up.

Average (a mark of 100) in these situations therefore doesn't mean average for their age. It means average for the 2000 very bright boys who chose to take the test.

hopefullytwicelucky Wed 23-Oct-13 15:09:22

We are lucky enough to have already a place offered at KGS, but obviously prefer not to pay for his education. Those financial resources can go towards family holidays...
Whatever happens, I cannot fault my son: he worked sooooooo hard! All he needs now is a bit of luck!
I wish you all good luck! And I mean it!

t33jay Wed 23-Oct-13 17:54:51

Hi All,

We have an offer for Wilson's but we were aiming for Tiffin Boys. So I compared the two schools and it turned out that Wilson's is marginally better than Tiffin.

My question is, if I put Tiffin as our first choice but our score is lower than the qualifying score, would the council offer us a place in Wilson's even though we put it as our second choice? Or would I be taking the risk of losing Wilson's allocation altogether by not putting them as first choice?

My son only got 201 standardised score in Tiffin.

Looking forwards for your advice, thanks.

tiggytape Wed 23-Oct-13 18:24:01

There is no risk of losing your Wilson's place (assuming DS's score is high enough to be above the final cutoff mark)
If you put Tiffins first and 201 is below the cutoff score in March, the council will look at your 2nd choice Wilsons. If DS is above the cutoff mark for Wilsons, he will get offered a place. If he is below the final cutoff, the council will look at your 3rd choice and so on. You will get offered the highest ranked (most preferred) school that you qualify for

Schools don't know where you placed them
There is no priority for people who list a school first
A boy with a higher score will always get priority for Wilsons whether he listed it 2nd or 6th if it turns out his higher choice/s cannot take him.

Basically list the schools according to how much you truly like them because when it comes to handing out places, nothing matters except the score (or for non grammar schools nothing matters except distance / siblings / faith etc).

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