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Is an A Grade Gcse from a State School a better than an A* from a private School

(128 Posts)
soul2000 Sat 31-Aug-13 10:58:18

In the wake of the reported fact that 32% of pupils from Independent Schools achieved at least 1 A* at Gcse and only 8% from State Schools and now doubt, a large amount of the A* Grade"s from State schools were from Grammar Schools. If someone from a bog standard Comprehensive achieved 2As at Gcse, is that a better achievement than 4A* from a highly selective Independent School

I know these types of discussions are bound to come back to Grammar schools rights/wrongs, or about family finances or parents previous Educational background. I just want to see if people agree that an A from a normal Comprehensive requires a far greater effort than an A* from an a highly selective Independent School.

bevelino Wed 04-Sep-13 20:09:25

I think it is difficult to determine whether a pupil from a bog standard comp achieving 2A's has a better achievement than a pupil achieving 4A* from a highly selective independent school. This is because highly selective independents and grammar schools have their pick of the very brightest pupils.

Although the report states that 32% of pupils educated at independent schools achieve at least 1A* that figure is an average of all pupils attending independent schools. Pupils attending highly selective schools are expected and do achieve more than 1A*. If you look at the results of schools such as Westminster, SPGS, CLGS, Henrietta Barnett for example you will see that their pupils consistently achieve at least 6A* and often much higher. Therefore it is arguable that those same students would do well even if they attended a bog standard comp but you will never know.

WorrySighWorrySigh Wed 04-Sep-13 13:01:19

Bonsoir It is interesting to observe first time users of state education - inevitably, they grossly overestimate how much school will do and fall short of the involvement that many parents with a family history of state school use think of as normal!

Something I see as a long term state school user is that parents need to be involved far more than I think was necessary in times past. DH and I are far more involved in our DCs education than were our parents. We feel that this is necessary as the school is struggling to do much more than cover the syllabus and even that is not always achieved.

Exam question practice, exam technique, development beyond the basics required for the GCSE all seem to have to come from parents not the school.

PurpleGirly Wed 04-Sep-13 10:49:23

Actually word, my very good friend is a head teacher at a private school. I also said 'many' parents are unsupportive, not all. Please do not misquote me.

Bonsoir Wed 04-Sep-13 09:29:41

My family is historically the sort of family that only used private education. In my generation and in my DCs' generation the range of type of school is much broader - international schools, overseas schools, grammar schools and even shock comprehensives. It is interesting to observe first time users of state education - inevitably, they grossly overestimate how much school will do and fall short of the involvement that many parents with a family history of state school use think of as normal!

wordfactory Wed 04-Sep-13 09:19:56

Bonsoir I think historically parents in general were hands off regarding education grin.

But yes, I take your point, that boarding parents were like that. That said, boarders are now a small proportion of private school parents, and among those many DC are flexi/weekly boarders.

The majority are day pupils whose parents see them and are involved with them to the smae extent as state schooled pupils.

To be honest, on another thread you'd see posters swearing that all private school parents are pushy and overly involved. Make a change at least wink.

Bonsoir Wed 04-Sep-13 09:08:10

wordfactory - historically, English parents who sent their DC to private school did not take a close interest in their DCs' education. Private school, and a fortiori public school and boarding school parents, outsourced their DCs education.

These days there is a significant first time buyer market in private education. That and the fact that standards in child rearing have undergone huge upward pressure in recent years means that parents have become a lot more interested and curious about what goes on at school. But I think that there are more "outsourcing" parents around than you might think!

wordfactory Wed 04-Sep-13 08:59:18

purple I have made no comment whatsoever on the relative academic abilities of state schooled DC versus private schooled DC.

Since so many DC swap between the sectors during their academic career, that would rather difficult!

It is you however who has tried to portray private school parents as unsupportive (based on gossip from your Very Good Friend) and it is talking who is trying to portray private schools as failing.

There are many things to criticise about independent education, but here you are both scraping the barrell.

WorrySighWorrySigh Wed 04-Sep-13 07:05:58

I dont think it is simply bad careers advice. In my DCs' school there is an absence of careers advice. The incredibly high staff turnover means that there is no 'spare' for any of the pastoral aspects of education.

There was an initiative to encourage students to consider higher education but this went by the way side as the school slipped further into the mire. Even this initiative was only aimed at getting students into the local lower league higher education establishments.

JustGiveMeFiveMinutes Tue 03-Sep-13 22:58:17

I agree. It's a disgrace.

Talkinpeace Tue 03-Sep-13 22:49:55

poor careers advice most likely

JustGiveMeFiveMinutes Tue 03-Sep-13 22:42:40

I don't know what that proves. Sefton for example has a couple of large fe colleges and 6 th forms attached to schools. Why en was their Oxbridge /RG intake so low? All the kids I know who attend these colleges live within the boundaries of their LEA confused

Talkinpeace Tue 03-Sep-13 22:38:55

the Liverpool data clearly showed by the numbers of students that kids were crossing boundaries.
THe numbers of kids taking KS2 exams compared with GCSE 5 years later and then A level 2 years after that - so I tracked the same cohort

round here, Hampshire and Southampton are the LEAs and yes, there is tons and tons of cross border traffic - as is the case all over the country

JustGiveMeFiveMinutes Tue 03-Sep-13 22:35:49

Kids from all 5 LEAs travel outside their 'home' LEA to be educated? I'm sorry but that isn't my experience.

JustGiveMeFiveMinutes Tue 03-Sep-13 22:33:07

Your DC are lucky to be attending a 6th Form with such excellent results! I thought that was obvious.

Talkinpeace Tue 03-Sep-13 22:33:00

I analysed your stats from last year - it had a lot to do with the fact that many of the kids in those LEAs went to school in other LEAs and the results were by school location, not home location.

Talkinpeace Tue 03-Sep-13 22:31:31

How do you mean?
I live in the arse end of Southampton and my local school is a dump. Luckily Hampshire schools are non selective and the 6th form options for this area are : Peter Symonds, Barton Peverill, Tauntons, Totton, Southampton City, Brockenhurst, Eastleigh College, Alton College - each one specialises so that all school kids get their choices.

JustGiveMeFiveMinutes Tue 03-Sep-13 22:29:28

I started a thread about this last year.

I hope the figures are better this year.

JustGiveMeFiveMinutes Tue 03-Sep-13 22:23:10

Your DC are extremely lucky Talkinpeace I'm sure you realise that though.

Talkinpeace Tue 03-Sep-13 22:14:06

I did not say it was. PSC is where my DCs willl do 6th form so I have its web page bookmarked. My point is that both state and private schools are open about their results (when they are good!)

JustGiveMeFiveMinutes Tue 03-Sep-13 21:58:15

Winchester is hardly representative of the entire country is it?

Talkinpeace Tue 03-Sep-13 21:53:42

that sort of data you mean?

PurpleGirly Tue 03-Sep-13 20:37:06

I don't think word will ever agree that some pupils from state schools are equally clever.

And our results are broken down on website and in local newspaper.

Talkinpeace Tue 03-Sep-13 20:10:04

As is the case in most State schools.
Everybody knows who they expect to see on the list on awards day, and who has the buggins turn awards
and the second the SATS results start to slip, so do the numbers (where parents have the choice)

It is probably true that since my day (when 18/45 had to retake) the information technology will stop such disasters

but from what I can gather at the good 6th forms (not just my local one) the kids from private and state are pretty evenly matched in attainment in even the most academic of courses

wordfactory Tue 03-Sep-13 20:06:00

No one has said private schools are universally good, have they?

Every school will have some pupils who fail to achieve their grades.

However, exrapolating from that that they fail in their droves and their parents are unsupportive is just wishful thinking/fantasy.

The reality is that most private schools give a very detailed breakdown of grades on their website. So it is very easy to see how many/few pupils fail or achieve low grades.

Plus, the school bongo drums beat very loudly. At DS school everyone knows which boy got very poor AS grades and are wondering what will happen next.

Talkinpeace Tue 03-Sep-13 19:56:23

If private schools did such a universally good job, Mander Portman and Collingham and their ilk would not have been raking it in on a significant scale for many, many years

most of the people I met when I was retaking had managed to keep all bad news away from their parents
and of those I can still find on things like linkedin, the crammer time has been erased from their CVs
you name the public school (day, boarding, girls boys mixed) they were represented at the crammers

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