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Help with net capacity

(16 Posts)
Boygirl5 Wed 17-Jul-13 23:35:11

I'm a little confused with the whole thing to be honest.

Also confusing me is the number of pupils in each year and they differ

Projected roll for sept 2013
7 150 (however I know 5 appeals won so 155)
8 157
9 159
10 162
11 187
12 197 (min of 10 extra inc in this)
13 169

They say their net capacity is 1030, however projected pupil roll is 1181 as above

Can I upload the capacity calculation on here and if so how?


prh47bridge Thu 18-Jul-13 00:01:48

I don't know of any easy way of uploading the capacity calculation but the only interesting figures are maximum workplaces and minimum workplaces. The net capacity should be somewhere between those figures.

The net capacity is the number of pupils the school can accommodate theoretically. The admission number is based on this. However there are a number of reasons why individual years can end up over the admission number. With every year over the admission number, some of them by quite a lot, it is not surprising that the school is over capacity.

It is worth checking when the net capacity was set and whether there have been any changes to the school since then. If, for example, they have built some additional classrooms the net capacity is not a true reflection of the school, explaining why they have been able to go over capacity without problems.

Boygirl5 Thu 18-Jul-13 00:29:26

It says sept 2012 for net calc. Also says all works etc have been taken into account already.

Max workplace is 1145
Min workplace is 1030 (90% of max wkplace)

Net cap is 1030.


prh47bridge Thu 18-Jul-13 01:02:13

What this shows is that they have set the net capacity right at the bottom of the range. They are only 36 places over the maximum. Given that their PAN is 150 and they have at least that many in Y12 and Y13 they are always going to be over their stated net capacity. Worth mentioning all of this in the hearing.

admission Thu 18-Jul-13 22:50:49

The thing that stands out is the level of pupils in year 12, They are obviously taking in extra pupils for the 6th form, that just happen to be better funded that years 7 to 11. I would therefore argue that part of the reason why the school is near the top of the net capacity figure is that they are taking in excessive pupils in year 12 and 13, which is completely school led and so they can't argue strongly they are full when they are causing a significant amount of the over-crowding they will be alleging. Typically 80% of pupils stay on from year 11 to year 12, so they could be taking in something like 50 extra pupils. Look on the website for what the schools admission arrangements are year 12. If they are bringing pupils from other schools then they are supposed to have a PAN for that.
Year 11 also has significantly more pupils than the PAN, so did they have a higher PAN or have they admitted all these pupils? The other obvious question has to be if you have 187 in year 11 and you are coping why then is admitting another to the 155 in year 7 a problem?

Boygirl5 Fri 19-Jul-13 12:23:59

It says of yr 12 that a minimum of 10 extra pupils are to be admitted.

Also in the paperwork, it says any over PAN yrs are due to appeals etc. which I'm struggling to believe tbh

I agree with you admission, they appear to be causing overcrowding themselves.
Do they have a legal obligation to take at least 10 extra students into yr 12?

prh47bridge Fri 19-Jul-13 13:12:07

As they are admitting additional pupils for Y12 they should, as Admission says, have a PAN for that. They are required to admit up to PAN if there are that many applications. But they can set PAN at whatever level they want. It could be lower than the PAN for Y7 if they choose. In this case they are clearly trying to get a larger sixth form because it attracts more funding. Many appeal panels will take a dim view of a school that claims to be overcrowded in Y7 whilst building up its sixth form in this way.

It may be that they used to have a higher PAN for Y7, which would explain why Y11 has so many pupils. However, if PAN was 150 I find it very difficult to believe that an appeal panel would have chosen to admit 37 additional pupils.

Boygirl5 Fri 19-Jul-13 13:21:44

As far as I am aware it has always been 150 and states on schools case that yr group over PAN are due to appeals and other thing out of their control, or words to that effect.

Also it does say they admit a minimum of 10 extra to yr 12

Boygirl5 Fri 19-Jul-13 13:34:11

It should be noted that in years 8-11, additional pupils have been admitted primarily on the basis of:

A) the decisions of independent appeal panel
B) fair access protocols operated in conjunction with the local authority; and
C) pupils with statements of special education needs in which the college is named

That is what is actually said

However, I'm just looking at the admissions policy and it says children with a statement of special education need which names this school will be admitted and will count against the PAN.

prh47bridge Fri 19-Jul-13 16:42:20

A child with a statement of SEN naming the school must be admitted even if the school is already full. They do count towards PAN so if, say, PAN is 150 and they are full up but then 5 pupils are admitted with statements they need 6 to leave before there is a vacancy.

I note that they say "primarily" in the first sentence. I doubt the explanation covers the reason there are so many additional pupils in Y11. I wonder if they agreed to have a bulge class that year.

admission Fri 19-Jul-13 19:23:02

My guess would be a bulge class or somebody made a major mistake and they had to admit a lot of pupils due to maladministration during the admission process.
The comment on the 6th form is wrong, they have to declare a number that they will admit over and above that in year 11. In other words they could admit 150 + 10 = 160. However the way that the rules are now written they can go over PAN if everybody agrees and lets be honest nobody is going to disagree to admit as many as they can squeeze in, given that they get more funding. The point to be making at appeal is that they are going over their admission number for year 12 and that is making a self-imposed number of pupils up to and over the net capacity of the school.

Boygirl5 Tue 23-Jul-13 23:40:25

What does a 'bulge class' actually mean? I realise it means they have more in but why is this done?


prh47bridge Wed 24-Jul-13 00:16:16

It is more common in primary school than secondary. Basically it means the LA have found that there aren't enough places for all the applicants so they need to come up with some more in a hurry. They therefore see which schools are willing to run an additional class in Y7 that year to help them cope.

Boygirl5 Wed 24-Jul-13 00:19:36

Oh right I see. I was unaware of that. I've been told by a friend that the school had created extra classes because of appeals won but I find it hard to believe unless as it was said earlier they're was maladministration. Hmmmm

Just keep wishing for a magic call or letter saying I have my places!
Obviously I know this is never going to happen

Thank you for taking time out to reply I really appreciate it.

Boygirl5 Wed 24-Jul-13 01:00:26

Just seen this on their site saying they offer education to over 1200 children yet at the moment it stands at 1181. Is this something to bring up? Or too picky?

offers an inspiring and challenging Catholic education to over 1200 children from across the City and further afield......

Academic standards and expectations are high and the curriculum offers breadth, choice and challenge at all key stages. There are over 300 pupils in Sixth Form who are able to choose from 27 A Level subjects.......

prh47bridge Wed 24-Jul-13 07:28:48

It isn't conclusive but it suggests they have been over 1200 in the recent past. I'd bring it up as it suggests the school can handle that many pupils.

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