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7a maths

(173 Posts)
Wobblypig Tue 22-Jan-13 21:27:42

My dn has been given a end of year maths target for yr 7 as 7a. We don't know what this means is terms of achievement or in terms of topic covered. Anyone know what would need to be mastered for this level? Is this a good level for 11 year old?

wildirishrose Sat 26-Jan-13 16:41:29

Children attaining level 7 in year 7 are not exceptional they've just been taught more of the curriculum.

needastrongone Sat 26-Jan-13 16:59:09

I wasn't aware that they could be taught more of the curriculum? My DS's math teacher made it vary clear at the start of year 7 that she was fully aware that a good number of her pupils were able to work at a higher level in some aspects of the maths curriculum but the school were not prepared to teach them in this way.

Given it's top set, they may not spend forever of each aspect of work but they WILL cover all aspects of the curriculum, to embed their learning.

DS has a target of 8c at the end of year 9 (I have more than one DC, he is the only one with this level of ability), he really is very good at maths and has been since being very young, he sort of 'thinks' in numbers and logic! I notice though he hasn't been given an 8a, although his teacher says he is an A* candidate if he works obviously, perhaps you need to be truly exceptional to get an 8A? To his disgust, this means his is on the school maths team and has to go and do maths every Friday lunchtime smile

He's crap at other stuff, this aint a stealth boast, just maths is his thing.

Clary Sat 26-Jan-13 17:03:45

Justn mumsnot I am not sure I was grr-ing at you! I had this in mind tbh
"Level 7 in Y7 doesn't belong in that category [1 child in 200] - yes it's very good, but in certain cohorts it's not that unusual - top set of a large comp in a relatively affluent area"

My DD is in that top set and as I say, a level 7 end of year target in that set would be unusual. I just think if people say "level 7 is not that unusual in yr 7" it does two things; 1) it makes some people whose DC are not at level 7 (which would be the vast vast majority, like, the whole of DD's year) panic about their DCs' levels 2) it devalues the achievement of those who are working at level 4 or 5, perfectly acceptable levels in every way for a yr 7 student.

blueemerald Sat 26-Jan-13 20:03:35

It's also worth noting that I and the 30/40 odd English PGCE students I've spoken to on my course have yet to find a school (probably been to about 30 schools between us so far) who put any meaning or faith in Year 6 SATS levels. They all do their own tests because they have become stick and tired of massively overinflated year 6 results.

The school I have been at for 4 months is the best comp school in the borough (79% 5 A*-C including Maths and english. There are 3 private schools and 2 selectives who do better) and a year 7 target of 7anything would be noteworthy. Not freak out crazy news but certainly interesting.

webwiz Sun 27-Jan-13 11:52:53

IShallWearMidnight - DD2 has found the Algebra course impossible which hasn't been helped by having a tutor who is so clever that he can't get down to the student's level to explain anything. The exam was awful as well.

I haven't dared to ask how any of the other exams went but I know she's relieved they are over with and looking forward to going to Amsterdam for a few days with friends. Its certainly a tough course though.

tillymintlover Mon 13-May-13 21:44:49

I know my daughters teachers have put her in for level 7 maths sat and shes the only one in y6 she says its good anyway so yeah im pleased

anniesw Tue 14-May-13 11:17:25

blueemerald - I know my dd's secondary school have found a real problem with over-inflated sats. There seems to be so much grooming for these Sats at the primaries desperate to show their achievement levels. They just sit and do test papers for months. They excel in doing Sats papers but not necessarily in the subject being tested

sony767 Tue 14-May-13 22:33:57

My son is in the top set in his yr 7 Maths class and they were told that the maximum level they can achieve is a 6a.

RedHelenB Wed 15-May-13 07:36:04

Tillymint - there isn't a level 7 maths test in Y^ - do you mean L6?

TheOriginalSteamingNit Wed 15-May-13 09:05:34

This thread reminds me we are coming to the season of many, many similar. Must polish the link to very easily comprehensible NC levels for year groups!

Sparlings Fri 24-May-13 13:25:25

Just had DD in tears last night as she came bottom of year 7 top maths set with a 7C which seems to be very good for end of year 7. Bit shocked that the whole set of 25 got level 7 and most got 7B or 7A. She is at quite an academic school that attracts bright children but not a grammar and almost no selection. Could the class really be that good? Wondering if perhaps grades inflated somehow?

23balloons Fri 24-May-13 17:41:02

Ds at a non selective school & there are 2 top sets atm. He got his results yesterday & 17 out of his class of 30 got lvl 7 according to him & quite a few in the other top set did too.

Ds got 7b, he has never been tutored & wasn't entered for Lvl 6 in primary because he wasn't sitting the grammar exams. He has always had an aptitude for maths though & has learnt a huge amount this year. the school decided to put some lvl 7 questions on to the exam this year & they were given a few practise papers before the exam as they hadn't been taught to lvl 7 yet. Not sure how solid the results are but I think they did it to help select next year's top set as there will only be one.

1944girl Fri 24-May-13 17:57:26

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TantrumsAndBalloons Fri 24-May-13 18:10:42

I often wonder where all the ordinary children's parents are? Because they are clearly not on here.
Level 7a at the end of year 7 is not ordinary, or average, or expected. It just isn't. It's a grade c GCSE. at age 11.

Both my dd and ds1 are in top set for maths. Not one single person in either year were working towards a 7a at the end of year 7.
End of year 9, yes.

So, please. Can we not pretend that all our children were at a level 7a at age 11. Or can the parents of children who are not exceptional please start posting?

TantrumsAndBalloons Fri 24-May-13 18:12:13

Sorry, level 7 maths SATS? In year 6? That doesn't even exist does it?
see what I mean?

Secondme Fri 24-May-13 18:32:04

That is bloody good, yes, but will they actually get there? It's just a target, and DD (yr 7 top set) is aiming for a 7b but there is only a 50% hope she will get there. Only one boy in the class is likely to get a 7a and he is good. Most of the kids are aiming high, but only about 6a now.
Of course, your dn could be like this boy and a maths genius and going to get that level. grin
For exams this year, they are doing level 4-6 and the kids that get 6a will do level 7 paper. I think this is fair, and level 7 is high.
And wtf at level 7 maths SATS?

MadameDefarge Sat 25-May-13 00:12:06

'tis nonsense. Targets are targets. If they teach level seven in the top set she will have the chance to achieve it. They might well do. DS in year 8 is in top set for maths and a couple of his mates are level seven already. But that is because they are exceptionally gifted. Its good they are teaching to that level to keep up with the very mathematically gifted children, but it is not the norm for year 7. or year 8.

You cannot get level 7 at primary because they do not teach to that level.

MadameDefarge Sat 25-May-13 00:14:12

I am beyond thrilled that my ds is at level 6b for maths at this stage in year 8. (clearly not my child, must check dna test).

ReadytoOrderSir Sat 25-May-13 09:51:35

Another primary teacher conforming that you can't get L7 at primary - we simply do not teach the required curriculum areas.

What we can do though is find out just how good our genuinely gifted pupils might be. At my school we have two dazzling yr5s and a maths whizz in my yr4 class. Through our secondary school we got a yr9 maths paper, which is L5-7. These three took it for their optional SAT during the past week. I haven't marked my yr4's second paper yet but his first paper was very good indeed.

There is stuff on there that we have not taught at all (eg algebra), but it's interesting to see how it was tackled. This will very much inform what I do with him in maths sessions for the remaining half term. He's probably going to join yr6 for some extended maths investigations.

Even if his total score puts him into a L6 bracket, the fact that he has entire curriculum gaps means he cannot be truly L6 at yr4. On his end of year report it will simply say "Above Expected".

isx99 Sat 25-May-13 12:28:19

It really depends on what you are comparing level 7a at 11 to. In my child's primary school, a few years ago, there was a boy who achieved an A* in A level Maths at the end of Year 5, having got A* in GCSE Maths the year before. The primary school provided him with access to secondary school materials. This to me is what truly exceptional in Maths would be and indeed there have been a few boys over the years who have achieved similarly, as noted in the press.

MadameDefarge Sat 25-May-13 12:33:30

and girls!

isx99 Sat 25-May-13 12:35:17

The ones I have seen have been boys, but there may well be girls too! Also there are many children in Year 7 in my child's prep school who are working between GCSE and A level standard, it seems to be the norm.

Wishihadabs Sat 25-May-13 12:40:23

Is it realy that unusual. Ds got level 3 in year 2. Is working at 5 now (yr 4). So to be at level 7 in 3 years time would seem reasonable. He is what I would describe as averagely bright. Certainly not exceptional. FWIW there are boys in yr 6 at his school doing yr 8 maths.

Wishihadabs Sat 25-May-13 12:49:05

The thing about maths is either you "get it " or you don't. C at GCSe equates to what exactly ? A bit of simple algebra, trigonometry and arithmetic a bright 11 year old can be taught that stuff. It's not like English where you need advanced reasoning which most 11 year old won't be able to do. Thinking back some of my contemporaries took GCSe maths age 14 and got an A. Therefore they might have got a C 2 years previously.

noblegiraffe Sat 25-May-13 12:51:13

It's a shame that kids are apparently being pushed through the maths curriculum so fast when research shows that this leads to problems with shallow understanding and shaky foundations. There's also far more to maths than that covered in the level descriptors, there's so much more that could be done with bright students than plowing onto the next level/qualification.

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