The EBacc

[themonalisa]

Is it true that creative subjects will be ignored if schools introduce the EBacc? What can we parents do?

[chloe74]

depends on what you mean by ignored? If parents choose not to do them then they will be ignored, otherwise it will be the same as it is now.

[creamteas]

The final plans are not out yet, but it might increase pressure on schools to restrict access to these subjects (this already happens to some extent at my DCs school)

Not connected to EBacc, but a heard a report on the radio this morning that a primary Oasis academy had cancelled all performing arts (including the Nativity play) as their SATS results were poor.

[chloe74]

Oasis academies have a reputation of playing the system big time, (students are collateral damage) no matter what the league tables say your child will not get a decent education there and you want to avoid their schools at all costs unless you drive a bulldozer.

If schools restrict access to the arts then parents just have to assert their rights.

[crazymum53]

The New English Baccalaureate Certificates (EBCs)will be in English Lang, English Lit, Maths, Optional Additional Maths, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, History, Geography, Languages. That will be 10 subjects altogether and will fill most of the school timetable. That will lead little room for other options such as DT, Music, Drama, Art, Business studies, RE, PE etc. and restrict choices available to students, so it's not just the Performing arts that would be affected.

[crazymum53]

What can you do about it? You could sign the on-line petition - see the link below:
petition www.baccforthefuture.com/sign-the-petition.html

[crazymum53]

Sorry it should read www.baccforthefuture.com/sign-the-petition.html

[prh47bridge]

There were similar concerns when the national curriculum was introduced. Drama was not included. There were dire warnings that drama would disappear from secondary schools completely. When I last looked this hadn't happened.

Students will NOT be expected to study all the EBC subjects. To get the EBacc they will need English, Maths, History or Geography, the sciences and a language. That leaves plenty of room for other options.

[BooksandaCuppa]

What prh said.

[chloe74]

sorry crazy but you are misrepresenting it. You will only (realistically) take 7 subjects from that list of yours not 10. Eng2, Math, Sci2, MFL and History or Geography. Leaving 3 or 4 spaces for a bright kid to do Music, Art, DT and PE if they really wanted. However the EBacc isn't compulsory so they don't have to do all those subjects! aka what prh said.

[TalkinPeace2]

The EBC is - as far as I can gather still at the "cotton wool in Gove's head" stage.

The Ebacc is a miasma as well.

Stick to getting kids to do sensible core subjects without silly artificial qualifications and it will all pan out OK (probably)

[chloe74]

"Stick to getting kids to do sensible core subjects" - I agree, its the same thing.

[themonalisa]

I like the notion of the EBC as being cotton wool on Gove's head! His head is full of cotton wool.
People are wrong when they say there will be plenty of time left to do the other subjects, if this was so then we wouldn't have schools squeezing the Arts into one option block and reducing the subjects offered in the Arts (DFE's own recent IPSOS report on the effect of the EBC clearly shows this happening).
The creative industries are huge in the UK. We need to make sure that we are continuing this trend and creating opportunities for young people to become the next Wayne Hemingway or Zandra Rhodes.

[prh47bridge]

I can't find a reference in the IPSOS Mori report to schools "squeezing the Arts into one option block" but I haven't read all of it yet. Page number? You do realise, by the way, that putting the arts subjects into a single option block is a way of ensuring that all pupils take an arts subject? Some schools informed IPSOS Mori that they had put all modern languages into a single option block for exactly that reason.

The report shows that 52% of schools say option blocks have not been affected, 48% say they have. According to the report the most common adjustment to option blocks seems to be increasing the number of blocks featuring languages, history or geography to make it easier for students to take EBacc subjects. Some schools have made some subjects compulsory that were previously optional. The case study showed that 9% of schools said they had reduced the non-EBacc subjects offered.

The survey conducted for the report showed that 85% of teachers do not expect any further changes to option blocks or subjects offered as a result of EBacc. So, according to these teachers, if the EBacc was going to result in schools dropping creative subjects this would have happened already.

I would also point out that many of those working in the creative industries did not study anything relevant at GCSE level. I don't know what GCSEs Wayne Hemingway took but his degree is in Geography and Town Planning. That hasn't stopped him from becoming a leading fashion designer.

[chloe74]

The IPSOS Mori report says in summary that:

"There is no significant change since last year in either the estimated proportion of Year 9 pupils who have chosen to take either the combination of subjects that make them eligible to achieve the EBacc, or in the uptake of individual EBacc subjects."

So where is the squeezing out of arts, its the same as before. And even if it was happening, our county is not short of wannabe thespians, it is short of engineers etc so more of a bias to science is needed.

[TalkinPeace2]

Oh FFS
do not debate the Gove cotton wool - one reshuffle and he's in charge of the MOD instead

[chloe74]

don't listen to the rude TP2 she is a militant left winger.

[creamteas]

well Chloe to me you come across as a militant right winger, so that's a balance!

[chloe74]

you don't hear me moaning that the reason why this is happening is because we have had 13 years of uneducated buffoons enforcing equality at the bottom and destroying our countries finances. Hardly a balance.

[ibizagirl]

Can someone explain to me what this ebacc is please? Dd's school hasn't mentioned it much to be honest. Will dd have to do it? She is currently year 9 and these are her subjects: Maths, English, Science, Ict, Re, Pshe, Pe, History, German (as mfl core subject), German as an option and Psychology. Thanks x

[circular]

Ibizagirl - the proposed changes for the Ebacc will come into play for the current year 7's at the earliest. Intiially, it is just Eng, maths & science GCSE's that are expected to be replaced by new format exams (EBC's?). Then the following year, humanities & languages will be included in the new format. Other subjects will still be available.

The Ebac figures currently shown on league tables are for when the GCSE's include English, maths, science x2, an MFL and either history or geography. There is no separate qualification for this though, although schools do seem to be pushing it for the more academic puplils at least.

[Poundpup]

To me the problem isn't so much the core subjects of the Ebacc but the compulsory subjects insisted on by the individual schools.

For instance, the current Ebacc technically consists of 6 subjects - English language, maths, two sciences, one humanities subject and one MFL. This should leave plenty of room on the timetable for additional subjects. However, check out the option blocks in most schools and they may have added citizenship, RE or pratical subjects such as PE. This usually leaves space for only 1 or 2 choices and this is were the creative, pratical and technical subjects suffer.

Mind you considering the amount of work that goes into some of these subjects, it probably isn't advisable to do more than 2 as I imagine your child wouldn't be able to showcase the best of their talents.

[circular]

Poundpup - You are spot on.

Once you add Eng lit and triple science to the core, that' s already 8 GCSE's.
At DD1's (Yr11) school when they chose,the most academic pathway only took 9 GCSE's. They all have compulsory ICT and Btec Sport in the core.

Some of DD1's friends that wanted to do either 2 MFL or 2 humanities ended up dropping down to double science to accommodate it. Some dropped the MFL for 2 practical subjects too, as the Ebac combo was not made compulsory.

[Poundpup]

circular Your DD1's Friends are exactly in the scenario I am talking about.

No problems with English literature or triple science but Btec Sport and my nemisis ICT.

WHY!!!!

[noblegiraffe]

Because PE and ICT are compulsory lessons so they might as well get a qualification in them seeing as they have to do them anyway?

[Poundpup]

Correct me if I am wrong and I may well be, as I do not have much experience with secondary school options but PE is mandatory and will be included on the timetable but surely Btec Sport is taking up a second block entirely.

No disrespect but if I was on an academic pathway the thought of Btec Sport or ICT won't have university admissions quaking in their pants or prospective empolyers either. It may well be appropriate if you are leaving school following GCSEs and are looking to go in an entry level sporting profession but having to drop a second MFL.