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My 11yr old daughter got a 4b maths 4aEnglish teachers assement 5 in her sats confused.com

(20 Posts)
sadiemae Mon 08-Oct-12 22:32:29

MMmm My daughter has been at secondary school 3 weeks now, she left primary with 4a English 4b maths Teachers Assesment 5 in English , she told me that she felt she didnt do well in the CAts test and has been put in group 3 , ther are 5 groups in each sets being x or y. IM WORRIED.... Unlike primary you cant chat to any mums or get a feel for what is going on . My daughter tries her hardest. I feel she is in shadows of her old school friends most achieved high 5s and 6s . Am i expecting to much, she is a little slow in understanding sometimes but once shown gets the idea . I feel there is to much pressure on some children and am not a pushy mum just want to do the best i can. Any help or advice would be much aprreciated.

tiggytape Mon 08-Oct-12 22:53:29

If there are a lot of children in Year 7 who are on level 5 and 6 then the top two sets may realistically be filled with children at those levels and set 3 out of 5 would be the correct place for a child who is doing well but not at these very highest levels yet. You don't want her to be doing work that is so hard it is overwhelming and demotivating but at the same time, you need to be satisfied that she is being given the appropriate work for her ability.

If you wanted to speak to the school, her form tutor would be the best person to start with and you could ask when and how they reassess the sets. Will she have the chance to move up if she does well in end of term tests or do they look at all the work through the year? That way you can get a feel for it and whether you think she is in the right class / can move again if it is too easy.

sadiemae Mon 08-Oct-12 23:03:21

I did speak to the head of year and it seems the sets are set by Maths results, My friend feels it should be english. Head of year told me my daughter can move up or down . So thats good. Im still not sure if grades are ok the 4a 4b for and 11yr old should she be achieving more. Im not a pucshy mum, but ask myself should i be? Just worried at mo have a meeting in dec with form tutor for target setting. I no and except that we all only have the brains that we were born with, and my daugher is happy and loves school, also they are scrapping the GCSE,s and my daugher will be the guinue pig year . TYPICAL. Such a worry . Thank you for your kind comments and advice

tiggytape Mon 08-Oct-12 23:13:39

sadiemae - your DD is doing well and I don't think you need to worry from what you have said here. 4b for maths is exactly where she should be and her English is better than the target for her age.

Remember sets aren't about how clever your child is - they are also about how clever the whole year are. If your DD's school is an academic one with quite a few children starting at a very advanced level for their age, she will be in the middle sets by comparison to them. It doesn't mean she is not bright and it certainly doesn't mean she won't catch up or even overtake some of them especially if her attitude is good. At another school, with children who are of a more average ability, she would probably be in a higher set for English at least and maybe maths too.

The only thing that I would double check is how they set children for English. I would hope they don’t use the maths result for decisions on all subjects but it may be in Year 7, they are only set for maths and the rest is more mixed ability teaching. If she is in the third set for English due to her maths test results, I would query that and keep a close eye on things to make sure she is moved up if necessary.

richmal Tue 09-Oct-12 09:51:47

IMO "you only have the brains you are born with" suggest there is no room for improvement. No one would say, "No matter how much excercise you do, you'll not get fitter." I'm not saying everyone would make an accademic equivalent of an olympic athlete, but certainly they can improve.

As for not understanding things at first, particullarly in maths, leaving a difficult topic then returning to it in a day or two gives the subconsious time to work on it. It is amazing how much simpler it seems. This does not mean the child is slow, it is simply how people learn.

From what you have said, your dd seems to be doing well. I would not push her at this age, but would certainly encourage her to attain.

I would also try to find out how many children have been moved in previous years. Also, when does this happen. I spent my first year of senior school in a lower grade, because, inspite of it being obvious at the end of the first term that I was in the wrong stream, they said they did not want to disrupt other children after one term at their new school by having to put them down a stream! Not that I'm still bitter smile I did get a prize for being put in the wrong class doing really well.

Madmog Tue 09-Oct-12 11:18:50

As Tiggytape said, you're daughter is exactly where she should be. I think it's fairly common practice to move children up and down sets every term, so if she didn't do so well in her CATs and then seems to be coping really well with her sets, they will move her up.

I think most secondary schools will have a parents/mentoring evening this term, so this will give you the opportunity to ask how she's doing educationally and coping. Don't forget school isn't just about academic levels (I know some teachers will frown on this), it's about using your own judgements, ideas, learning how to cope socially with friends through different situations etc).

sadiemae Tue 09-Oct-12 22:45:28

Thanks everyone for your comments, i only have my dd ,an only child and am a doting parent. I do feel there is so much pressure on parents and pupils to do well and forgetting that we all have special talents and its not all about academic skills but also life skills which are just as important.

Lucky for me i have a lovely dd,

How do you feel about the new exams , this is a worry for me?

I hoping for my dd it may be hare and tortoise situation ,

Thanks

Merrin Wed 10-Oct-12 19:38:21

She may be a bit of a late starter, I was, or she may be in just the place she is supposed to be. Either way, if I were you I would help her with her home work and encourage her to read, take her to the library to get books she wants to read and books about the topics at school, all the usual stuff. You might find she moves up a set as she gets into secondary school style learning.

ravenAK Wed 10-Oct-12 19:47:34

I'm an English teacher & absolutely would not worry about L5 in SATs followed by 4a at start of year 7. What sort of level 5 was it ; do you have the score?

Kids are coached to sit SATs, achieve perhaps the lower end of level 5 (massive target for primaries to get as many as possible of their borderline 4/5s into level 5), have a six week lay off & THEN arrive at secondary school, with umpteen subjects/teachers/rooms - it often takes them a while to acclimatise.

It's a conversation I have with parents quite often around now; give her English teacher a call?

LeeCoakley Wed 10-Oct-12 21:08:14

I would definitely be asking questions if she was set for English based on her Maths results. That's lazy streaming and completely wrong. I remember Dd2 was put in a low set for Business Studies because her French results were poor! The timetable didn't allow for proper setting apparently. hmm

ravenAK Wed 10-Oct-12 22:57:43

It often doesn't - our year 7s are set for Eng/Maths/Sci.

It throws up some anomalies. Usually at English's expense - Maths & Science tend to 'go together' more based on KS2 SATs.

The thinking behind it is:

GCSE courses are blocked first, to allow for option groups & students doing collegiate courses offsite - so core subjects are blocked in so that everything else has to fit round the as far as possible.

That leaves KS3, so year 9 is blocked in next, in subject sets, then year 8.

By the time that's done, the only realistic way to group year 7 is to stream them rather than set them - otherwise you can't allocate staff (& we still end up with split sets, ie. 3 lessons with a subject specialist & 1 with a random colleague who has space on their timetable...)

It's not ideal, but given how dubious KS2 SATs are, it may as well be year 7 where you always have a handful of wrongly setted kids. By year 8 we've got more reliable data to work with to subject-set them.

It's a disadvantage of small to middling schools, I'm afraid.

LeeCoakley Thu 11-Oct-12 08:10:48

That's interesting raven. My dds' schools have set individually for maths, science and English. Or if this was not possible they have been mixed ability. The Business Studies/French setting that I mentioned, I thought was outrageous at the time! I didn't realise that we have been lucky with no streaming.

sadiemae Thu 11-Oct-12 22:46:30

Hi raven

Aprreciate your comments dd was level4a English, teachers assesment level5. 4b Maths , sorry that all i was given. Dd atttend s church school , some of her friends actually achieved level 6 amazing for them , but hard for those left behind (my DD).

mm So actualy may be put in correct sets in year 8, getting a clearer picture now thank you.

I do feel teachers have a hard task , as goal post are always moving, exams are changed....how can you work like that . And its our childrens future at stake.

It does seem in europe that education is better , is it not.

Thank You

sadiemae Thu 11-Oct-12 22:49:59

To be honest i realy dont understand to well how it all works, but i was told by head of year they set groups by maths results, so that being my dd poor subject , finds herself in set 3. Thank You

manicstreetpreacher Fri 12-Oct-12 18:05:38

It's a weird one for sure OP. My dd finished with all 5s but now says she's dropped by two sublevels in the main subjects and considerably more for science.

It has made me wonder just what the point of the SATs were when they seem to be taking these 11 plus style CATS into consideration too.

My dd was one of these who was top of the class and bored but couldn't get her head around the 11 plus. Go figure! I'm pretty much now thinking that the best thing to do is take each day as it comes because I sure as hell don't have a clue what it's all about!!

sadiemae Sat 13-Oct-12 00:08:41

Didnt realise the cats were 11 plus style tests.....

I have heard that in first year there can be a dip .
Its just a blinking worry,

Good luck

Adversecamber Sat 13-Oct-12 17:12:18

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RosemaryandThyme Sat 13-Oct-12 20:17:58

Setting based on maths testing could be used to your advantage.

Presumably it's done for reasons of timetabling throughout the school.

If it's the case that a better maths result would have put her in higher level groups pretty much across the board then maybe consider getting her to leap on in maths ? lots of ways to do this, but might mean that she would struggle a bit in other areas.

Also watch out for the statement that children can move up and down groups, I'd ask the school what percentage have been moved from set three up to set two over the last year, I'm sure the TES recently quoted less than 5 per cent of students are moved up each year.

WofflingOn Sat 13-Oct-12 20:32:25

I've got a Y6 class, more than 2/3 of them are already at a 4b level, so by the end of the years they should be strong level 5s with a number of 6s.
Which leaves the 1/3 that are at national average, but the less able in my class.
OP, all you can do is support your daughter as an individual and not fret about how others in her year are doing.

maree1 Sun 14-Oct-12 13:14:00

Try to go over her schoolwork and homework with her in maths to make sure she understands it fully to your satisfaction. Building up her confidence through a little bit more practice with mum or dad can help.

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