Why do all the decent secondary schools in my area have to be bloody religious schools?

[StaceeJaxx]

DD1 is in year 5 and we're starting to look at secondary schools. She's ASD and has an IEP and is on school action plus, so we're even more aware that the school she goes to has to be the right one.

DH and I aren't in the slightest bit religious at all. I was brought up Catholic but I'm now an atheist. We've brought the dds up to just make their own judgement on God. When dd1 started primary school I was adamant that I wasn't going to start going to church just so she could get into a decent primary. Thankfully the school she goes to doesn't require church attendance.

Now we're looking at secondary schools and all the good ones are religious schools! The rest are complete sink schools that I wouldn't send my worst enemy too. So we're going to have to start going to church every Sunday if we want her to have a decent secondary education. Goes against all my principles, and pisses me off so much, but don't know what else I can do?

Rant over.

[TalkinPeace2]

say thankyou to that nice Mr Tony Bliar - it was his idea to bring in parental choice but freedom for god bothering schools.
Cameroon is too much of a coward to tell Michael no evidence Gove to change it.

[ExitPursuedByAaaaaarGhoul]

Maybe the answer is in the question.

[deleted203]

Agree with Exit I'm afraid. Religious schools tend to have a strong moral ethos attached to them and insist upon certain standards of behaviour. They generally attract parents who have the same expectations, and therefore don't end up with a lot of feral kids from sink estates whose parents couldn't give a shit about behaviour, or can't cope with parenting their children.

[TalkinPeace2]

Ghoul
religious schools have been able to surepticiously economically select for many, many years.
Its nowt to do with god and all to do with Mammon
our local catholic schools re chock full of sikhs and pagans ....

[SkippyYourFriendEverTrue]

it's not about economic selection, so much as it is selecting parents bothered enough about their education to jump through religious hoops.

[ExitPursuedByAaaaaarGhoul]

You don't have to be afraid that you agree with me sowornout

[LeeCoakley]

Where will all her current school friends be going?

Are you talking about Catholic secondary schools? Can you suddenly get religious to get into a Catholic secondary? I thought you had to get your children baptised not long after conception to stand a chance of getting into one of these cult madhouses.

[Takver]

I don't think it is anything to do with the religion at all - its simply that they've become the default option for the middle classes, so have lots of children with motivated involved parents.

Where we live the Welsh medium schools are pretty much directly equivalent - they pick up the majority of the concerned-about-education families and therefore get much better results, are excellent for discipline etc - and I've yet to hear that speaking Welsh conveys any moral worthiness on families ;-)

[3littlefrogs]

How do you get into a catholic school if you are sikh or a pagan? (genuinely baffled)

[ExitPursuedByAaaaaarGhoul]

I think they have to take a percentage of other faiths and I am sure that sikhs could show religious intentions. Not sure about pagans though .

[StaceeJaxx]

Actually the 2 schools that I want her to go (either 1, both are good) are CofE schools. The local Catholic secondary is still nicknamed "mothercare". I used to go there, it's gone downhill a lot in the last 20 years.

I'm going to suck it up and start going to choice because I have no other choice really. It just pisses me off that I have to pretend to believe in God so my daughter can have a good education, and it makes me believe like a massive hypocrite!

[StaceeJaxx]

church not choice

[LeeCoakley]

Ours only take other faiths if they can't fill up the places with their own faith. And then, if they are really unlucky, they have to take the non-churchgoers.

[TalkinPeace2]

Easy : not many catholics - they would have to fire teachers if they did not fill the place - so they exclude atheists but let anybody else in
Sikhs round here prefer mixed schools for secondary - even though the catholic primary is full of turbans ....

[LeeCoakley]

You have two CofE secondaries? That's rare. Are you from a particularly religious part of the country?

[StaceeJaxx]

Jesus! Feel like a massive hypocrite not believe!

[3littlefrogs]

That is interesting. The catholic schools around here won't admit anyone who is catholic without a letter from their priest confirming that they have attended mass regularly for years. The Jewish schools are equally strict. There was a case recently where the father was Jewish and the mother wasn't, and the child was refused a place.

Anyway - sorry. This is a bit of a hijack and not relevant to the op.

[StaceeJaxx]

Lee, I'm in Liverpool, not particularly religious, no.

[TalkinPeace2]

the whole religious schools shenanegins is ANOTHER London Anomaly
out here in the sticks we snigger at the hoops you all put yourselves through


Liverpool and Glasgow are unusual as they are VERY divided cities - as evidenced by their football teams ....

[prh47bridge]

Faith schools do not have to reserve a percentage of places for other faiths but some do. Some give priority to children of their own faith first, then children of other faiths then everyone else. They cannot refuse to admit children who are not of the faith. If there are still places left after all the faith categories then they must be offered to children in non-faith categories.

Determining whether or not a child's parents are of the faith must be done objectively. Schools are not allowed to interview parents to determine how CofE/Catholic/Jewish/whatever they are. They therefore have to rely on proxies such as regular attendance at worship. This does, of course, lead to people playing the system by attending church purely to get a place for their child.

Faith schools may not select on economic grounds, either surreptitiously or openly. Schools have been hauled over the coals for attempting to do so.

[CecilyP]

Religious schools existed long before Tony Blair or Michael Gove, TalkinPeace2, and it was generally religious parents who chose them or who had priority for them.

it's not about economic selection, so much as it is selecting parents bothered enough about their education to jump through religious hoops.

Totally agree and, while people of all social backgrounds may be churchgoers, for a self-admitted atheist to attend church to get the desired school, shows exceptional commitment to their child's education.

[TalkinPeace2]

Cecily
Name me the fully state funded non catholic schools that existed before Bliar got his claws in ....

NB My kids went to a church primary - because that is what the schools generally are away from London

[CecilyP]

Sorry, not sure what you are asking, TalkinPeace2.

[TalkinPeace2]

Religious schools existed long before Tony Blair or Michael Gove
state funded religiously selective schools increased MASSIVELY under Bliar and Broon and Cameroon have carried it - very divisive

before Bliar there were Catholic schools but that was about it, not like all of the minority evangelical stuff there is now

[prh47bridge]

TalkinPeace2 - There are no fully state funded Catholic schools and never have been. All Catholic schools are Voluntary Aided schools and have to find 10% of the funding for any capital works (new buildings, etc.). However, there were plenty of Catholic schools that had all their running costs met by the state before Blair. As for fully state funded non Catholic schools (which is what you asked) they obviously existed in huge numbers!

VA schools have been around since 1944. Originally VA schools had to fund 50% of all capital works with all other costs being met by the state. The school's contribution to capital works was reduced to 25% in 1959 and has since been reduced to 10%. Running costs have been met in full by the state throughout.

Voluntary Controlled schools have also been around since 1944. All costs for these schools are met by the state. These are also faith schools but have less freedom than VA schools.

All Catholic schools are VA as are schools of non-Christian faiths. CofE schools are split between VA and VC status.

Nor is it true that schools away from London are generally church schools. I live several hundred miles from London. The primary schools where I live are evenly split - around half are church schools, the other half are community schools. Nationally around 22% of primary schools are VA and 15% are VC.