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Why do all the decent secondary schools in my area have to be bloody religious schools?

(153 Posts)
StaceeJaxx Sun 07-Oct-12 12:24:51


DD1 is in year 5 and we're starting to look at secondary schools. She's ASD and has an IEP and is on school action plus, so we're even more aware that the school she goes to has to be the right one.

DH and I aren't in the slightest bit religious at all. I was brought up Catholic but I'm now an atheist. We've brought the dds up to just make their own judgement on God. When dd1 started primary school I was adamant that I wasn't going to start going to church just so she could get into a decent primary. Thankfully the school she goes to doesn't require church attendance.

Now we're looking at secondary schools and all the good ones are religious schools! The rest are complete sink schools that I wouldn't send my worst enemy too. So we're going to have to start going to church every Sunday if we want her to have a decent secondary education. Goes against all my principles, and pisses me off so much, but don't know what else I can do?

Rant over. blush

TalkinPeace2 Sun 07-Oct-12 16:04:13

say thankyou to that nice Mr Tony Bliar - it was his idea to bring in parental choice but freedom for god bothering schools.
Cameroon is too much of a coward to tell Michael no evidence Gove to change it.

ExitPursuedByAaaaaarGhoul Sun 07-Oct-12 16:06:22

Maybe the answer is in the question.

deleted203 Sun 07-Oct-12 16:11:28

Agree with Exit I'm afraid. Religious schools tend to have a strong moral ethos attached to them and insist upon certain standards of behaviour. They generally attract parents who have the same expectations, and therefore don't end up with a lot of feral kids from sink estates whose parents couldn't give a shit about behaviour, or can't cope with parenting their children.

TalkinPeace2 Sun 07-Oct-12 16:11:50

religious schools have been able to surepticiously economically select for many, many years.
Its nowt to do with god and all to do with Mammon
our local catholic schools re chock full of sikhs and pagans ....

SkippyYourFriendEverTrue Sun 07-Oct-12 16:13:07

it's not about economic selection, so much as it is selecting parents bothered enough about their education to jump through religious hoops.

ExitPursuedByAaaaaarGhoul Sun 07-Oct-12 16:14:34

You don't have to be afraid that you agree with me sowornout grin

LeeCoakley Sun 07-Oct-12 16:22:36

Where will all her current school friends be going?

Are you talking about Catholic secondary schools? Can you suddenly get religious to get into a Catholic secondary? I thought you had to get your children baptised not long after conception to stand a chance of getting into one of these cult madhouses.

Takver Sun 07-Oct-12 16:26:31

I don't think it is anything to do with the religion at all - its simply that they've become the default option for the middle classes, so have lots of children with motivated involved parents.

Where we live the Welsh medium schools are pretty much directly equivalent - they pick up the majority of the concerned-about-education families and therefore get much better results, are excellent for discipline etc - and I've yet to hear that speaking Welsh conveys any moral worthiness on families ;-)

3littlefrogs Sun 07-Oct-12 16:32:04

How do you get into a catholic school if you are sikh or a pagan? (genuinely baffled)

ExitPursuedByAaaaaarGhoul Sun 07-Oct-12 16:38:18

I think they have to take a percentage of other faiths and I am sure that sikhs could show religious intentions. Not sure about pagans though hmm.

StaceeJaxx Sun 07-Oct-12 16:39:39

Actually the 2 schools that I want her to go (either 1, both are good) are CofE schools. The local Catholic secondary is still nicknamed "mothercare". hmm I used to go there, it's gone downhill a lot in the last 20 years.

I'm going to suck it up and start going to choice because I have no other choice really. It just pisses me off that I have to pretend to believe in God so my daughter can have a good education, and it makes me believe like a massive hypocrite!

StaceeJaxx Sun 07-Oct-12 16:40:08

church not choice

LeeCoakley Sun 07-Oct-12 16:41:22

Ours only take other faiths if they can't fill up the places with their own faith. And then, if they are really unlucky, they have to take the non-churchgoers.

TalkinPeace2 Sun 07-Oct-12 16:42:08

Easy : not many catholics - they would have to fire teachers if they did not fill the place - so they exclude atheists but let anybody else in
Sikhs round here prefer mixed schools for secondary - even though the catholic primary is full of turbans ....

LeeCoakley Sun 07-Oct-12 16:43:00

You have two CofE secondaries? That's rare. Are you from a particularly religious part of the country?

StaceeJaxx Sun 07-Oct-12 16:45:15

Jesus! Feel like a massive hypocrite not believe! hmm

3littlefrogs Sun 07-Oct-12 16:45:34

That is interesting. The catholic schools around here won't admit anyone who is catholic without a letter from their priest confirming that they have attended mass regularly for years. The Jewish schools are equally strict. There was a case recently where the father was Jewish and the mother wasn't, and the child was refused a place.

Anyway - sorry. This is a bit of a hijack and not relevant to the op.

StaceeJaxx Sun 07-Oct-12 16:46:31

Lee, I'm in Liverpool, not particularly religious, no.

TalkinPeace2 Sun 07-Oct-12 16:51:12

the whole religious schools shenanegins is ANOTHER London Anomaly
out here in the sticks we snigger at the hoops you all put yourselves through

Liverpool and Glasgow are unusual as they are VERY divided cities - as evidenced by their football teams ....

prh47bridge Sun 07-Oct-12 17:42:12

Faith schools do not have to reserve a percentage of places for other faiths but some do. Some give priority to children of their own faith first, then children of other faiths then everyone else. They cannot refuse to admit children who are not of the faith. If there are still places left after all the faith categories then they must be offered to children in non-faith categories.

Determining whether or not a child's parents are of the faith must be done objectively. Schools are not allowed to interview parents to determine how CofE/Catholic/Jewish/whatever they are. They therefore have to rely on proxies such as regular attendance at worship. This does, of course, lead to people playing the system by attending church purely to get a place for their child.

Faith schools may not select on economic grounds, either surreptitiously or openly. Schools have been hauled over the coals for attempting to do so.

CecilyP Sun 07-Oct-12 18:15:54

Religious schools existed long before Tony Blair or Michael Gove, TalkinPeace2, and it was generally religious parents who chose them or who had priority for them.

it's not about economic selection, so much as it is selecting parents bothered enough about their education to jump through religious hoops.

Totally agree and, while people of all social backgrounds may be churchgoers, for a self-admitted atheist to attend church to get the desired school, shows exceptional commitment to their child's education.

TalkinPeace2 Sun 07-Oct-12 18:18:46

Name me the fully state funded non catholic schools that existed before Bliar got his claws in ....

NB My kids went to a church primary - because that is what the schools generally are away from London

CecilyP Sun 07-Oct-12 18:23:09

Sorry, not sure what you are asking, TalkinPeace2.

TalkinPeace2 Sun 07-Oct-12 20:47:59

Religious schools existed long before Tony Blair or Michael Gove
state funded religiously selective schools increased MASSIVELY under Bliar and Broon and Cameroon have carried it - very divisive

before Bliar there were Catholic schools but that was about it, not like all of the minority evangelical stuff there is now

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