Expected levels at the end of year 8?

[SparkyDuchess]

Can anyone tell me what the target is for each subject at the end of year 8? I can find loads of information up to year 6, but nothing for year 8.

Thanks :)

[TalkinPeace2]

the range of expectations is so wide as to make comparison's meaningless
unless you know the child and what they have achieved in the past

[SparkyDuchess]

I thought there must be some sort of target, as there was in year 6?

It's just to give me some context when looking at DS's report.

[noblegiraffe]

There's loads of info for Y6 because it's the end of a key stage. Look up expected levels for end of KS3 - Y9 in most schools.

[DaisySteiner]

According to ds's report the average for a year 8 is a level 5 - whether that is the beginning or end I don't know, but a year 9 should be level 5-6.

[gazzalw]

At secondary school aren't all the SATS targets based on a trajectory which starts with the KS2 ones? So they are individual to the child? I stand to be corrected as my DS is still at primary school (although Yr 6).

[LynetteScavo]

I thought average was 5a at the end of Y8, but I'm finding DS is much higher in English, Maths and Science. I presume this is because he was taught these subjects so thoroughly at junior school.

[GoodButNotOutstanding]

I would expect the brightest pupils (only a handful even in a good school) to be getting into level 7 by the end of yr 8, level 6 would be considered pretty bright, average kids seem to get level 5 and if it's level 4 then they will be slightly below average in that subject.

That's what I would expect for Maths so I think it should be pretty similar in other subjects.

[Bunbaker]

"According to ds's report the average for a year 8 is a level 5"

Is that for all subjects? DD is reaching the end of year 7 and most of her class are at levels 6 & 7 for maths and English. Other subjects seem to be levels 4 & 5. Her school isn't a high achieving one either and is only satisfactory according to ofsted.

[LynetteScavo]

I think they are expected to get lower levels in MFL, if they haven't studied it before Y7.

[Bunbaker]

What about subjects like science, ITC, DT and RE?

[titchy]

Expected progress is one full level over two years, so KS2 4b in Maths should achieve 5b by end year 8, and 5a/6c border by en year 9. MFL will be lower to start with as will other subjects as they start from a lower baseline (zero in some eg a new language!). But broadly they should catch up by the end of yer 9.

[Bunbaker]

I was given to believe that they had to make two sub levels of progress a year. Perhaps it is because DD's school is only one step away from special measures so they are concentrating on improving the results.

Admittedly DD is in the top set for maths and most of her class have made improved by 3 and 4 sub levels in one year, which has really surprised me.

[LynetteScavo]

I also thought it should be two sub levels of progress each year.

[EvilTwins]

2 sub levels per year is what we've been told. We are given KS3 targets based on KS2 levels, then split them down to get end of Yr 7 and end of Yr 8 targets. Not an exact science, of course, especially for non-core subjects. I teach drama, so my targets are based on KS2 English. Obviously a DC who is good at English isn't necessarily good at drama. Works both ways though.

[SparkyDuchess]

That helps - I can use the KS2 targets and add either 2 subs or 1 full twice to get a target for end of year 8. I just want something as a starting point really.

Thanks :)

[noblegiraffe]

Levels are designed to measure progress between key stages. Sub-levels do not actually mean anything concrete and are assigned subjectively. Progress is not linear and children will vary as to when and where they make progress.

So really don't spend too much time on them. The idea that you can measure learning and progress in this way and assign it a fine-tuned number is a particular bugbear of mine.

[roisin]

I agree with noble giraffe. Does your report state whether your child's teachers think they are making good progress? Or making good effort/commitment? That's a suitable measure for me.

[ibizagirl]

Dd's targets are 7A for end of year 8. She is getting 7A and also getting 8 for maths, german and history at the moment. She is in set 1 (top) for all academic subjects and getting these levels but others within her set are getting 5's and 6's but are learning the same work. So i wouldn't worry too much about levels. Dd wouldn't be able to gain 2 sub levels per year. She left primary on 5A, got 7A in year 7 assesment for some subjects and can't get any higher in year 8 so she hasn't moved! So when she gets her report it will say a remark that she hasn't gained these sub levels (like it did on her last report) which doesn't make any sense. How can she gain these sub levels when there is nowhere to go? Advice would be welcome thank you.

[spg1983]

ibizagirl I would question those levels, especially at Year 8. The brightest children in our year got a 7a so fair enough. History - I know nothing about, sorry! I teach German, and there is no Level 8, as far as I'm aware it only exists in Maths.

In order to have got a Level 7 in German, a child would have had to write (or speak) approx 3-5 paragraphs of exceptionally accurate German, using at least 3 different tenses but probably 4 for a Level 7. It would have had to include opinions, extended sentences with advanced ideas (i.e. idioms/subordinate clauses/other features of an advanced writer) and would have been written for a specific audience, so a news article or something like that, all from memory. If your daughter is a native speaker or has lived in a German-speaking country for a long time then she should be able to do this, but for a child who would have started German in Yr 7 or Yr 8, this is pretty impossible for the end of Year 8.

Obviously if there's some kind of circumstances I've missed, such as your dd being bilingual then I apologise, but I would seriously question the accuracy of this level if there are no exceptional circumstances.

[spg1983]

Oops - I meant the brightest children in Yr 8 got 7a in Maths.

[imnotmymum]

ibiza my yr 7 DD got level 7a in maths and Science in assessments so school are working her at a higher level from September and she will take GCSE early does your school allow this ??It is frustrating I know as my eldest DD got 100% in her maths so achieved the highest score but does not reflect what she could have got ! School really good though so I would check in with tutor.

[ibizagirl]

spg1983 Thanks for comments. Dd is very good at German and can hold a conversation. She has taken and passed an NVQ level 2 for German and her teacher says dd has found it easy to pick up. She has been getting 7A since year 7 for German assessments as she includes all the criteria necessary as far as i know and was told. Teacher sometimes gives level 8 if they feel work has surpassed what is needed or for outstanding or exceptional work. Same as in history.
imnotmymum Thanks for your comment too. Dd took and passed her gcse maths with A* in year 7 and is doing a level work at the moment. She doesn't want to take any more exams at the moment after just doing German nvq. She starts gcse work in September and some children can take them in year 9. Best wishes to you both.

[klm4765]

OP - DCs can only reach a level if they have covered the work.
DS's level for ICT at the end of year 7 was 4a - much lower than for most other subjects. His ICT teacher's explanation was ' We haven't started on level 5 work yet.'

[spg1983]

Wowee, ibizagirl, I think there are some exceptional circumstances - your dd is amazingly clever! Hope you didn't take offence at what I wrote as there was definitely none meant - as you can tell it's not often that we come across children like your dd! :)

[noblegiraffe]

Ibizagirl, if your DD is being given A-level work in maths then a KS3 level is meaningless. The school will have to report this to the government but you should be given grades that reflect her actual level of work, e.g. AS grade C etc. I assume she's actually preparing to sit A-level modules?