Graveney - Renting in catchment for admissions purposes(307 Posts)
I am thinking about renting for a 12 month period or so from this summer to cover up to beginning of Y7 for DD in Sept 2013. And then moving back out.
I know (most people think) renting is wrong (and often discussed here). I actually also think its wrong, but I also know others do it (and not sure why we should be the only one not "playing the game", and I do want to avoid my local catchment school (have no religion, no money (for indies), average DD with no chance of her passing selection tests).
I am not starting this thread to get into the rights and wrongs of it - I only want to ask the very specific question: Do "renters" get caught and are places actually withdrawn?
I am asking about Graveney, not in general. I know from threads on MN that some LAs do try and look into short-term renting. But somehow I think that this particular school and this particular LA don't really care (happy to have aspirational middle classes moving into catchment) ...... so do they look into whether the rental is permanent or not, whether the renters have an owned (proper) home (rented out for a year)
Just wondering as it seems its increasingly popular to do this ....
Graveney is fine if you are very bright.
Only average if you aren't
I think someone earlier pointed this out.
We live 2 miles away in S london and in 2005 our ds scored 97% in Wandsworth Test and failed to make it in to the extension class and therefore Graveney as a whole as we were beyond its catchment area.
Would never have done the Graveney shuffle for moral reasons.
He WAS accepted by one of the outstanding schools in Wandsworth and has loved every moment, and his brother followed on sibling policy, loves it too.
Graveneylady is new to the school having only joined in the last academic year but there have been past cases where places are removed (one poster here had their neighbours sheepishly return from the rented house minus the Graveney place they'd been after although they were very philosophical about the whole thing)
I don't expect they catch them all or perhaps even most of them. I expect a lot of people go to great lengths to cover their tracks.
But even if they only catch a few and strip them of their places, the consequences of losing a school place and then having no offer are so awful that hopefully it would make many parents think twice even if the risk of being caught was small.
The risk depends on whether others will find out / suspect and report you more than the school / council checks being brilliant so it is a nail biting ride. And the place can be removed even after September so it is a long term risk too.
I suppose we will never know - but we all know people (perhaps one is SL) who have done that. I just asked Graveney Lady in the othe thread about whether Graveney ever does withdraw places.....
I wonder what StockwellLiving did in the end and if her DC got in?
And you are right prh47bridge. When it comes to education principles seem to fly out of the window regardless of ideological stance. I wonder what the Millibands will do when they get to that point in time??? Hmmmmm.....
Do you seriously think this is about politics? Do you really believe that left wingers don't try to manipulate the system?
Typical right wing behaviour manipulating the system and then cutely behaving as though it's slightly "cheeky" and not really fraud.
savoire - children travel from several adjoining, or even ajoining the ajoining boroughs to Wandsworth to get to Graveney,
Chestnut Grove is now reputed to be an excellent school with an Outstanding status. I know parents with kids there who are extremey happy with it.
RE Chaucer in yr 7 - MyMeatballs - this is at Dunraven, not Graveney. Anyway, I have taken a closer interest. They studied part of the the opening and two character descriptions from The Prologue. They studied the original language and translated it, with help. DC did 2 homework essays based on this: one about what information about pilgrimages and poetic pastoral language could be gleaned form the text - including supporting evidence with quotes in ME. The second comparing the characters, especially morality, and with supporting quotes in ME, and saying which you would prefer as a travelling companion.
This links to the rest of the year's work as follows: In Oliver Twist they also looked at character analysis and finding quotes to support your conclusions. So a through line about character study and using quotes as evidence.
They are now doing 2 sonnets - one Petrarch, one Shakespeare, again looking at pastoral poetic language. They have apparantly studied a section of Beowulf (that passed me by) , and are looking at the evolution of language over Beowulf, TCT and now the sonnets, all describing the same sort of stuff.
So, no, not the GCSE curriculum of studying the texts in depth, but using the texts to develop building blocks of literary understanding. And I think it is good to encourage children to see a wide variety of texts as accessible and not daunting from early on.
They didn't read the whole of O Twist (though DC did), they read a series of key narrative chapters.
Meanwhile a mixed ability group (or rather students who are good at readiing books from a range of ability streams) are all reading the same 3 books for a borough reading challenge competition between several schools - debating the best book, or something - for World Book Day.
I think the stories as stories are fine/usual /OK (whatever) for yr 7 I am just surprised at a child being able to read the stories in middle English in yr 7
with no experience.
At university and year 12 of course (or even for a good old fashioned O level )
I have found from my own dcs education that the school says we're doing x and I think oh how wonderful and super educational and academic and old fashioned etc etc
then when I am actually aware of what they are doing it is nothing like the standard I was led to expect, I rather expect reading 2 of the originals in middle English at Graveney would fall into that bracket.
My Mother is an English teacher and speaks a variety of middle English, old English, Anglo Saxon etc (and I mean really speaks not just reads) she has just told me that she thinks top set grammar school would like the challenge at the age of 14.
(I actually found myself googling houses on rightmove in the catchment earlier )
Savoir yes quite a few there was a ruckus on a local mums site about just that a while ago, one grandmother got very irate that people in Balham weren't using Chestnut Grove!!!!!!
I did a couple of Canterbury tales in either Y7 or Y8. I remember it as being really entertaining and engaging. Wife of Bath and another.
Do many children travel from the north of Wandsworth to Graveney? I realise that they would have to be the winners in the WW test system, but just curious if many kids do this?
So far they have done at least two sides of A4 looking at the Middle English, doing their own translation, with help. I think it was the character descriptions from the Prologue. or maybe the opening. Then they are doing 2 contrasting stories. Or maybe they are just doing two contrasting characters from the prologue.
I have an English lit degree and we did a Middle English module, so I imagine most English teachers would be at least that competent? Middle English isn't as hard to get to grips with as Old English.
I did a Shakespeare in Yr 7, we really enjoyed that.
We didn't do Chaucer until A Level I'm pretty sure..... It's a bit full-on for 12 year olds, isn't it????? Especially as Middle-English is such a hybrid it's not really very intelligible to modern people....
really are yr 7 reading the whole thing in middle English?
how long do they expect to take on that?
how much experience does the teacher have in middle English?
(idle questions really it's not that i dont believe you Im just surprised)
I thought Dunraven has been streamed for ages?
This year's top stream Yr 7s have done Oliver Twist, The Kraken by Alfred Lord Tennyson and are now doing 2 tales from the Canterbury Tales. Starting with the original middle English version. And are really enjoying it.
What really concerned me and stood out about Dunraven - admittedly three years ago - was the year 7 English work. Then, we were told, the entire year was reading Stig of the Dump in classes of mixed ability. It's a challenging book for some, but for many of the bright kids in year 7 it would have been old ground and unchallenging. I wasn't convinced by any means at that time that they served all kids well. But schools change, of course, so perhaps things are different now.
We visited Dunraven 2 years ago, the students showing us round were really engaged, the teachers were mostly very imaginative and energetic, the Head's talk gave loads of detail about the various exam courses on offer, not just GCSEs but BTecs and things to suit a wide range of kids. I loved the art work.
Corridors a bit poky, but actually the whole school is being re-built as far as I can see. We would have been very very happy with it, and will probably choose it for 6th Form.
Blimey, I visited Graveney and Dunraven three years ago and at that time they were worlds apart.
The standard of year 6 work on display and the topics covered at Dunraven were nowhere near the standards at Graveney extension and upper streams. The school was tatty, the children showing us around were indifferent, the teachers were distracted, so we dismissed it. Perhaps the facelift has changed things.
I have only heard positive stories about Dunraven. Clearly they are also getting a lot of investment. Will visit later this year with interest.
I know some extremely high achieving children who go to Dunraven.
And some middle attainers who are flying.
And one low attainer / borderline SEN child who is being extremely well supported.
The behaviour is good too. (I am in the area where they are on the bus).
This is interesting. We live out of catchment (probably about 1.5km), but it has been suggested by current headteacher that DS (quite bright) could do the WW test. Our neighbours' daughter is there, and is very bright.
We have a couple of years to go before a decision needs to be made, but interestingly some friends have decided to put Dunraven down No 1 this year over Graveney- and their children are bright. Their view was that Dunraven is on the up, while Graveney is coasting. We are (I believe) well within catchment for Dunraven.
It's all re-arranged according to actual ability once they are in the school. So yes, kids who get in on distance or as siblings will be in the extension class as ability allows.
Do DCs who enter through the selective mechanism end up in the top stream automatically (thus not allowing those that get into through other means to enter that stream)?
Or is there an assessment by the school. Also, how does movement between the streams work as years go on?
"London is such a shithole with kids."
No, it isn't.
Of course the top stream does extremely well - it is not just ordinary high attainers but the higherst attainers of a catchment that stretches way, way across S London. And in addition to the 2 super-selective classes they have the high attainers from the geographical intake.
It depends whether it was a genuine change or a temporary one to get a schol place. If it was a genuine swap, with all that entails in terms of changing the names on the deeds, council tax and everything else so the houses genuinely change ownership, it would probably be allowed (but I am sure it would raise enough suspicion to be investigated so everything would need to be totally genuine and completed).
If you mean packing up each of your things so DD's mum lives in a house owned by you and your Dad and you and your Dad go to live in a house owned by your DD's mum and yourself, then no that's not allowed. It would be seen as a temporary arrangement to optimise DD's chaces of a school place which is cheating. If found out, you would lose the place which is a silly risk to take since DD has a good chance of a place from her mum's address anyway.
Many parents ask how would the council know: Any change of address near a very oversubscribed school now triggers at least a cursory investigation in most cases. Any change of address from 500m to 300m will be viewed as even more suspicious (unless the move is perhaps from a 1 bed bedsit to a more suitable family property) because why else would you do it?
People ask how the council can 'prove' it is only temporary: The council don't have to prove anything. Suspecting it is enough for them to make the application invalid or withdraw the offer later on. If parents feel unfairly judged, they can then go to appeal and state their case to prove why the council's suspicions were wrong. But in a house swap case, a panel is going to take a lot of convincing that is a genuine, permanent house swap. If your Dad's name is still on the deeds for example, it is going to look like a cheat.
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