BBC league tables - Latymer Upper

[yumskimumski]

Just found this. Is there some explanation for these results that I'm missing?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/education/school_tables/secondary/11/html/205.stm

[Needmoresleep]

I assume the explanation is here.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12150147

IGCSEs or exams taken early?

Or that they all suddenly wake up after GCSEs and start working in time to get a good crop of A levels.

[SheHulk]

I looked in the LU web and the GCSE results don't match.

[yumskimumski]

Oops, should have looked at the school's website before I posted. Thanks both.

[Katryn]

Why what does it say on the school website? Can't find.

[toutlemonde]

www.latymer-upper.org/exam-results.html

[Katryn]

Strange seems like a weird discrepancy!

[Ponders]

where it says A Level points they have put the value added figure (as for quite a few others)

[Ponders]

also it looks as if where the A/AS points is different from the VA figure, they must have added together the AS & the A2 grades - even Oxbridge entrants don't generally score above 600

[Mominatrix]

Hmmm. I have always been baffled by this school's appeal. I do understand that there are a dearth of decent senior schools in the area and that the private options are fiercely academically competitive and out of the reach for many - even those with the funds to pay the fees. However, looking at the results of LU and comparing them to other fee-paying schools within the vicinity, and also with state or subsidised options (Tiffin, Lycée Francais) - they don't look impressive.

I do understand that exam scores are just one aspect of school, and there probably are a myriad of very good reasons why LU is so oversubscribed, and would appreciate it if anyone could explain the appeal of the school (besides being co-ed).

[toutlemonde]

The results are excellent aren't they? You only need so many As and A*s on the chart to know your child will be pushed academically, and that's enough, never mind if st pauls or whatever have a few points extra... The atmosphere seems really nice I always think, like a sixth form college, treating the students as mature, with freedom, respect. Lots of excellent opportunities for music and sport. Lots of normal people, bright children from state schools, ethnic diversity, not a weird posh kids breeding pool where everyone has eating disorders and stress-related medical problems... The head seems a funny charming man. Its not at the arse end of nowhere like tiffin.

Quite happy for people to come along and tell me my impressions are totally false as I have little evidence to back them up!

[SheHulk]

"NOT a weird posh kids breeding pool where everyone has eating disorders and stress-related medical problems..."

Sorry, I have been told otherwise. But really hoping I have been told wrong.

[Needmoresleep]

I remember years ago looking round a rather pushy Prep where the Head was asked about the difference between his school and the more relaxed school down the road. "The parents" He said. We looked around and chose the other school, though the first might not have taken us in anyway.

I suspect the same holds true here.

Latymer, like G&L, City, Putney High and Dulwich comes around the 50th mark in the FTs more authorative and researched tables. In most parts of the country, and for many people, that would be good enough. Especially when the rowing, art, music and drama are factored in. (Just had a look at the website and the leavers destinations and 3 went to RADA and one to the Bristol Old Vic, whilst 6 went on to well respected London art schools. )

It is clear that by getting into one of the St Pauls School a child is pretty much guaranteed good results. However there is a fair amount of anecdotal evidence that this comes at cost for some of those further down the cohort. Latymer probably provides more room to be average academically but to excel in other things and come through with self-esteem intact.

Some St Pauls parents are lovely, but others are clearly very proud of the fact that their DC have been selected for one of the most academic schools in the country. This can come across as arrogance, and presumably can rub off on their DC. My guess is that this is one reason why Latymer is increasingly preferred over those schools, indeed sometimes by ex-Paulinas and Paulines.

[Mominatrix]

Based on the parents I know at both schools (St. Paul's and Latymer Upper), I think that you have pretty much summed up the difference.

[hammersmithmum]

I've heard from many that Latymer Upper is most definitely a v posh school....granted not as posh as somewhere like Eton...but definitely up there with St Paul's etc.. Although you are right in saying that there are more kids from different backgrounds, however it is an increibly posh school, or so I've heard!!

[takeonboard]

Posh? It is certainly a predominantly white middle class school, which doesn't really reflect the cultural mix of its surrounding areas.....There have been a few recent drugs stories and arrests of pupils at the university fee's riots (which is laughable given that the fee's at LUS are double the highest Uni fee's!) They must have damaged the schools rep and popularity.
The head who introduced co-ed is leaving this year so there will be changes afoot.

[hammersmithmum]

I think that the fact it is majority white, and all middle class, slightly contradicts what Latymer Upper says it stands for (giving all bright children a brilliant education no matter what their class/background is), but it is true that they had one arrest during student riots, and problems with drugs once or twice. But perhaps because it is a posh school and the fact they can afford to behave like that makes it more common for this to happen. I have heard as many stories from St Paul's or Eaton regarding drugs and the like....no one can deny that it is a posh school, whether this changes its ethos is debateable. And yes, perhaps the change of headmaster will stop this small minority of students misbehaving, maybe not.

[hammersmithmum]

The fact that Pippa Middleton's best friends went there, and so many other 'posh' socialites does show you that it is a posh school...although perhaps it doesn't matter as long as they produce the results...something like 30% go to oxbridge, but you get what you pay for as with all these schools (SPGS, SPBS, LG, Eaton etc) I think it's around £15000 a year

[hammersmithmum]

But I've heard from many that it's one of the toughest schools to be at, both socially and academically, so I think you need a pretty thick skin to get through it

[hammersmithmum]

Looking at their exam results, although last year they had a bit of a dip GCSE-wise, all the other years are almost as good as St Paul's etc, but I want to know what happened last summer? Perhaps they just had a bad year

[hardboiled]

Is it really one of the toughest schools to be at? Why? Details greatly appreciated as it is on our list...

[Mominatrix]

30% do not go on to oxbridge - more like half that number. Academically, it is NOT in the same league as St. Paul's - does not mean that it is not academically selective, but it is not a super-selective one.

[Mominatrix]

St. Pauls number 3, Latymer upper number 70

Oxbridge hit rate - St. Paul's 33%, Latymer Upper 10%

[Needmoresleep]

It depends what you mean by super-selective.

St Pauls gets better results and is comfortably within the top 10 nationally in most if not all league tables. As Mominatrix suggests, Latymer is comfortably within the top 100 in the same tables, often about half way down.

Last year's GCSE results and league table places are based on selection five years earlier when co-education had not worked its way through Latymer. Given the demand now, results should be gradually improving, though parents with children in more than one school in the area confirm that the St Pauls schools continue to earn their academic reputations and results.

Latymer however can be quite tricky to get into, as is Alleyns in South London, which I assume spurred the question Mominatrix posed earlier in the thread.

Mixed means half the number of places available to either girls or boys. A significant number of parents and pupils prefer mixed, including many Europeans who are not used to single sex education in their home countries. Latymer has a prep who reduce the number of places available. And Latymer has real strengths in drama, art, music and sport, particularly rowing, which add to its appeal. Boys places seem to be particularly sought after as there are few alternatives in West London for boys leaving, especially state primaries, at 11+.

Anecdotally the numbers applying for Latymer are higher than other private schools in the area, and not far short of Tiffin. St Pauls and Latymer will both probably welcome the small number of really super-bright, but further down the list it is perfectly possible to get St Pauls or Westminster and not get Alleyns or Latymer. Indeed some turn down schools with stronger academic records in favour of the broader range mixed schools. Equally it is possible to be offered a place at Latymer and not be offered Hampton, Putney High, or Godolphin.

In short if Latymer appeals and your child is reasonably bright, it is worth applying. To most people the results are more than good enough. An a prevailing West London attitude that Latymer is less academic and so can be used as a safe fall back, does not work. The same applies to Alleyns, whilst demand for Emanuel and the Harrodian appears to be growing. In the end it is not really about which is the better school, but which is the better school for a particular child.

In terms of "posh" it is hard to tell what that means any more in London. St Pauls are clearly more established, whilst Latymer is a former Grammar. Latymer is easier to access for boys in the state primary system, and will have fewer existing links with the central/West London girls preps as it went co-ed less than a decade ago. St Pauls pulls in children from a much wider catchment, whereas Latymer is more firmly West London. St Pauls probably has more money for bursaries, though Latymer does its best. St Pauls is the bigger brand name and is very sought after by those who belong in London's international financial circles. Latymer is more arty. St Paul's single sex approach is more likely to appeal to some groups, including Asians, whereas Europeans often prefer co-ed. All differences, though not not "posh" exactly.

[hardboiled]

hammersmithmum, could you elaborate further on your opinion that you need thick skin to survive Latymer Upper?

[harrassedswlondonmum]

My son is in year 7 at Latymer, having come from a state primary, and is very happy there. I wouldn't describe him as thick skinned, he can be quite sensitive. He has thrown himself into the sport and found himself a bigger fish in a smaller pond of boys than if he had gone to say Hampton. So far I have been very impressed with the school. They do an awful lot to raise money for their means-tested scholarship fund and pride themselves on the amount of assistance they are able to give.

As for the claims of it being very posh, I don't get that impression. Most parents seem very normal, and there are a lot of working mums amongst the parents in his class (far more than in my daughter's class at her all girls independent).

It is very hard to get into, statistically, but worth a go. Lots get into Latymer who don't get into Hampton, and vice-versa so it is definitely worth sitting both. It isn't academically in the same league as St Paul's/Westminster/KCS but that suits us fine!