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dd has been expelled from school Y11, anybody with experience of PRU please come and talk to me

(58 Posts)
expelledfromschool Thu 08-Sep-11 16:25:33

dd started the new term on tuesday, I received a call that afternoon to tell me that the school were expelling her. I have since found out that it isn't expulsion but a managed move to a PRU for two days and vocational training on the other days.

She has been on a monitoring card last year and we were warned if she failed, this would be the outcome. In the last meeting that I attended first week of June, I was told that she was failing the card. The cards which she brought home didn't reflect this because I was told she had to get over a certain % which she had. I was then told that they were going off emails from her teachers. The inclusion teacher couldn't explain why there was a discrepancy, instead of me just relying on the card that she would email me weekly regarding any behavioural issues. She would be in touch before the end of term to arrange another meeting.

I never received a single email, the card again didn't reflect failing although neither did it reflect excellent behaviour. I wasn't contacted for a meeting so naively thought things were improving. So I am feeling a little shocked to get a call on the first day of term.

The behaviour that has caused this : rude, uncooperative, can't take a telling off has to have the last word, etc etc.

No violence, drugs etc.

I am really worried about the kind of children she will be mixing with, although she obviously has a bad attitude towards authority in school she has never been in trouble with police or anybody outside of school.

The other problem is that the school she attends is out of the borough although it is only a mile away. Due to this the PRU she is to attend is in the same borough but a lot further about fifteen miles, three buses and in a VERY rough area (think shameless). The local PRU is only two miles away.

She is really devastated and came home on the first day full of the joys, determined to change until I burst her bubble. I have told her the choices she has made have led her to this, and she needs to take responsibility for her own actions. Her sidekick at school tends to load the bullets and then stand back whilst dd fires the gun so I am relieved that they will now be separated.

Please share your experiences with me if any of your dc's have attended a PRU, positive or negative.

Please don't flame me, I know my dd has been disrupting other dc's education, I know I have obviously failed as a parent so if you want to tell me what I already know don't bother.

katiej12 Thu 08-Sep-11 16:55:50

Teacher perspective here:
I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but this sounds VERY mild to result in permanent exclusion (a child pulled a knife on me and was not expelled). First of all, I would be finding EXACTLY what has gone on, because otherwise she'll have the same problems in the PRU. You also need to find out if she can still take english and maths at GCSE and push for this if not. I have some experience of managed moves but I'd rather not give the details on a public forum just in case, please PM me if you want more information. Finally, take a deep breath and try to focus on where you go from here rather than blaming yourself- I'm sure you did the best you could and ultimately as you have said she is responsible for her actions!!

EssW2 Thu 08-Sep-11 17:00:39

Is it an Academy school?
Some have a very short fuse for ousting students and do so quickly in order to keep thier reputation and results up. They don't have the same obligations to hold on to and educate children that community schools do.

Is there no process of appeal? You should surely be able to appeal given the discrepancies between the monitoring card and the e mails.

TalkinPeace2 Thu 08-Sep-11 17:13:49

Book a meeting with her teacher, head of year and head of pastoral and the inclusion teacher.
Take with you a good friend who has no temper at all, has a very thick skin and is EXCELLENT at taking notes.

Ask to see the paperwork and find out what has REALLY gone on.
PRUs are mind numbingly expensive.
This will not have been permitted unless there was a real problem.

It may be that they are using the PRU as a sort of 'boot camp' to shock her into a bit of common sense.

cornsylk Thu 08-Sep-11 17:16:42

do a shout out for tethersend in active convos

maypole1 Thu 08-Sep-11 17:19:47

katiej12 depends what school she is at my sons school have a zero tolerance for bad behaviour and expect that parents to get their children in hand or their out to be honest I wish more schools were the same and we wouldn't have so many sink school were badly behaved children were left to learn zero

Op You worried about the type of child your dd will be mixing with I am afraid children like yours

"The behaviour that has caused this : rude, uncooperative, can't take a telling off has to have the last word, etc etc. "

She will be mixing with children like herself some more so some less so

So I am feeling a little shocked to get a call on the first day of term.

You can't really be that shocked, you haven't failed its what you know do to correct her wayward ways know

Are you still letting her swan round with a bb or I phone, has she acess to a computer other than for school work

Is she able to go about her social life un harassed if so then I would closely take a look at that

My vie is is if you can't be trusted in school with adults you cannot be trusted to go out on your own

You have no business having a mobile or to be on face book until you can behave

If you have not put any restrictions on her you are part of the problem if you have well you can only do your best

maypole1 Thu 08-Sep-11 17:23:14

EssW2 yes keep a disruptive child in the school
So she and both her classmates and fail in getting a education while hours of the day are taken up by one child

Appeals should be for children who are being kicked out who have done NOTHING wrong the op her dd is a nightmare at school

And the fact her behaviour is so bad she herself is showing she cannot cope with in a main steam provision

prh47bridge Thu 08-Sep-11 17:24:43

I agree with katiej12. This sounds very harsh and also does not sound like the school has followed the correct process. Permanent exclusion should be a last resort. The inconsistency between the monitoring cards and the schools actions rings alarm bells. From what you have posted it does not sound to me like the school has got anywhere near exhausting its options. Was there a specific incident on the first day that triggered this? If the school hasn't told you I would definitely ask the question.

The governors must review the decision to exclude your daughter and you are entitled to meet with them to put your views. If the governors confirm the exclusion you are entitled to an independent appeal.

Has your daughter been permanently excluded before? I ask because the rules change somewhat if it is her second permanent exclusion.

EssW2 Thu 08-Sep-11 17:30:09

Maypole - not sure you have read the OP too carefully. The OP's dd was determined to improve her ways, supported by the OP - who was NOT aware of the scale of the problem because it wasn't made clear in the card.

OP - actually some children really flourish in a PRU, and find that the small unit, high staff ratio, close attention, tailor made curriculum and learning plan and emphasis on core skills really suit them.

Greensleeves Thu 08-Sep-11 17:31:00

many many assumptions there maypole, some of which may potentially contain an element of utter bollocks

Ask for a proper meeting with everyone concerned OP - ask to see everything held on record about your daughter's time at that school and how this situation has developed

the appeals process is there so that you can challenge an unfair decision - you need access to the same facts the school have access to so that you can judge the fairness of the decision, and they need to be made to hear YOU as well

good luck

expelledfromschool Thu 08-Sep-11 17:32:54

I agree Maypole, if my younger childrens education was being disrupted by another child I would be upset.
Regarding restrictions, she had her phone took off her from feb-July, changed password for comp so she could only use for homework, cancelled her birthday outing, she hasn't had pocket money for ages although she has a sat job so does have some money from that. She spent most of last year grounded.
Regarding - You worried about the type of child your dd will be mixing with I am afraid children like yours
I am under the impression maybe wrongly that some children in PRU may have been in trouble with the law, take drugs etc that is what my concern is.

noblegiraffe Thu 08-Sep-11 17:37:35

I believe that managed moves need to be agreed by the parents.

I know my school arranged alternative provision for one student at risk of permanent exclusion but his mum kicked up a fuss (like you didn't want him mixing with possibly worse pupils) and it didn't happen.

expelledfromschool Thu 08-Sep-11 17:38:10

@ph47bridge, she has never been excluded before. There was deffo not any problem on first day. The decision had already been made last term.

noblegiraffe Thu 08-Sep-11 17:42:28

This suggests that it shouldn't take place without your consent.

upatdawn Thu 08-Sep-11 17:42:29

Has your daughter ever been internally excluded/suspended from school? During year nine my DS was internally excluded for a couple of days because of persistent classroom disruption (he put it down to being bored in lessons and not being stretched enough hmm). After this happened and he realised the severity of the punishment he changed completely. If she hasn't already been punished with exclusion I doubt the school can go straight to perminent exclusion with the behaviour you have described. Also the report system does sound like you were misled and could be grounds for appeal if it gets to that stage. I hope this helped.

4madboys Thu 08-Sep-11 17:54:37

i would be going in to speak to the school, purely because of the discrepencies with what the card says and what the lady? who spoke to you today is saying.

and WHY has been so little communication from the school, i can see why you have looked at the card and seen that she was obviously doing better, not great but better. if this was NOT the case then the school should have been in touch sooner!

it infuriates me when the school dont communicate the full extent of a problem or simply dont communicate at all until the end of term etc, when you as a parent can do nothing about it.

and from my pov i would NOT let them send her to a PRU unit, my partner works in a childrens home and several of the children he looks after have gone to/are going to a PRU unit, my dp's exeprience, is that they are VERY badly run, the children are getting little or no education, the organisation and lesson preparation has been non existent in many cases and the children are being failed in his opinion.

also yes the kids attending them can be 'less than savoury' ie violent, history of acting out sexually etc. i am sure that this will all vary from one PRU to another, but there is no way in a milllion years i would allow my kids to be sent to one.

her behaviour is NOT good,but like other posters i agree that the reactions sounds ott.

in my eldest sons school (high school) they actually have an exclusion unit within the school, where the children can go, they have this in many high schools my dp has worked. the children (who behave similarly to your daughter) are effectively in isolation but with work to do. supervised closely etc and it seems to work in many cases and they are then integrated back into the classroom.

get on the phone and make an app to go in to the school, take someone with you, write everything down, speak to you lea, they must have some kind of parent co-ordinator? good luck

expelledfromschool Thu 08-Sep-11 17:56:04

I am not trying to defend my dd's behaviour, I am mortified and I have told her till I am blue in the face that teachers are given respect and don't have to earn it. I have told her to zip it and take whatever they give but she just cannot refrain from answering back when she feels wronged.

I really don't think there is any point in appealing tbh, one of her teachers said today "Yippee, Yippee she has been kicked out" to another member of staff in front of the whole class, complete with arm gestures.

When she is in a small group in isolation she is fine. The teachers in isolation get on really with her and have NEVER had any of the issues that teachers in the classroom have with her. So I am thinking that PRU is the best option for her. I just don't have any info about what she will do or learn.

She has already done her science, english, maths, and several option GCSE's and gained C's.

upatdawn Thu 08-Sep-11 18:01:59

After finishing GCSEs does she want to go on to do A levels? If not the three days a week vocational training may be very good for her to be out of the classroom but still be learning.

maypole1 Thu 08-Sep-11 18:05:53

Well done for the boundaries

In terms of other children she will mix with she will have top make her choice on what girl she will like to be their will be many who have criminal records Ect but,buy being with some really hardcore children she might find she is not so tough after all and want to smarten up and get back in to mainstream school

To me it seems like she cannot cope with large class situation and may show off to hide her stress

And to play devils advocate it must be very stressful for the teachers who have 30 children to have one that is taking up all your time but the out burst of joy was a bit hmm to say the least

But that might just show you how much distress she has caused this type of thing is sadly why many wont even consider teaching in schools

Hope all goes well

And to those who are taking issue with my post their is not point being a yes man when people are asking from real thoughts and answers

Just saying oh the school are sooooo bad appeal Ect is not helpful

BodenPowell Thu 08-Sep-11 18:08:23

Download the Exclusion Guidance as it should cover your situation - schools and LAs must have regard to it and it will help you check if they are following the correct procedures.

ACE are a charity which has some booklets and a helpline - they are very knowledgable regarding exclusions so it's worth getting in touch.

Your local parent partnership may be able to help with more local information, e.g. alternatives to the PRU, the local reputation of the PRU. The PRU should have an Ofsted report online and you should be able to visit the site before deciding if it is the right place for your DD. I have seen some very good PRUs but only for primary age (they usually have a lot of undiagnosed SEN chidren who improve by just being away from a mainstream environment) - for older children, issues like drugs and gangs are more apparent. There will also probably be many more boys than girls there.

If you are disputing communications/procedures and want to check records, paperwork etc, you have the right to view her school file (and receive copies), which may help you establish the facts of the case.

bananatrifle Thu 08-Sep-11 18:19:06

buy being with some really hardcore children she might find she is not so tough after all and want to smarten up and get back in to mainstream school

......if she ends up in a PRU (not all of them are bad, by the way) there's no way she'll go back to mainstream at this stage of her education.

Do you have an exclusions officer based at your County Hall? They will help you through this minefield.

She's done well to get the exams she has achieved already and she's obviously a bright girl so she'll have good options open to her post-16.

My heart goes out to you, but remain supportive of your daughter and keep your boundaries, and you WILL get through this.

Greensleeves Thu 08-Sep-11 18:20:51

maypole, I am not a "yes man", in fact I am very much a "no woman"

but parts of your post were very questionable imo

admission Thu 08-Sep-11 19:51:25

I think you need to ask some questions about the situation. Firstly a managed move to a PRU and vocational studies is NOT an exclusion. In a managed move the emphasis has to be on the managed bit of the move. It is supposed to be a new start which all parties agree to. From what you have said the only party to have agreed this is the school. It sounds very much more like somebody being forced out of the school than a sensible move. Doing this on the first day of term also smacks of the school just wanting to get rid of your child. The teacher's response whilst maybe understandable is also incredibly unprofessional - said in the staff room maybe justifiable, in front of other pupils unforgivable.
Having said that I am somewhat surprised that she has not been excluded even temporarily given what she has been apparently guilty of.
Until as such time as you say your daughter is going to the PRU or the school permanently exclude her she is still a registered pupil at the school. Time for you to talk to both the school and the LA about this and for decisions that are actually in the best interest of your daughter are made, not what is best for the school.

Talker2010 Thu 08-Sep-11 19:59:26

There are ways to appeal

First Governors, then the LA (if an LA school)


A teacher said "Yippee" ... I can see that to you this is unpleasant but to me it suggests that teachers have had to put up with so much from her that they are feeling massive relief ... ongoing disruptive behaviour undermines and is far more disruptive than a single act of high level behaviour

Tortu Thu 08-Sep-11 20:43:01

Hmmmm. I'm going to be the one to say it is probably a good thing for her. As somebody else said, PRUs are hideously expensive, so she won't have got a place unless a need has been proven. It also sounds as though:

a) mainstream education is not working for her and there is a friend you want her separated from anyway
b) if she hasn't been permenantly excluded then she was about to be. So this way, she'll have nothing on her record and can maybe salvage some GCSEs.

I understand that it is worrying for you, but the only kids I've known to have gone have thrived. Why would you want her to stay in school? She is obviously not fitting in and is clearly such a nightmare that both teachers and students want rid of her. Something is wrong......PRUs are designed for students who fit into this category.

I guess you'll find out soon, but I actually bumped into an ex-student (hit the head teacher) who is now doing nine GCSEs and was full of joy. In our school he was awful and singlehandedly lowered the grades of students in any class he was in just by his very negative and threatening behaviour.

Most of the kids will be just like your daughter. They may have been permenantly excluded, but they're still just kids.

Good luck!

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