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Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Secondary education

Ks3 levels - I understood what are the expected levels?

29 replies

LovelyDaffs · 17/07/2011 20:37

I got KS2 levels, so know how well my primary school dcs are doing and whilst I can obviously count up I'm not clear what the average levels are. Dd1's levels range from 4a on new subjects to 6b on others. She's at an academic school, but Im not clear on where she 'should' be at this stage (year7). Is there a table somewhere?

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theredhen · 18/07/2011 11:30

Students are supposed to gain 2 levels per key stage, I believe. So a level 4 at ks2, should mean a level 6 at ks3.

So basically if she's made a third of a way through 2 levels, she should be acheiving as she should, if that makes sense?

titchy · 18/07/2011 12:04

I thought it used to be as redhen says, but I think the two levels a year thing might now only apply to KS 1 and 2. I seem to recall seeing somewhere that nowadays at end KS3 children should be a Level 5/6, rather than specifically a 6b which they would if they've moved two sub levels a year.

So I'm confused too! Level 5 for end KS3 seems very low, considering some are achieving this at the end of KS2! Or is this another sign of general 'dumbing down' of standards?

I wouldn't mind knowing the definitive version either (dd with same results as yours daffs!).

theredhen · 18/07/2011 12:36

titchy - it's two levels per key stage, not per year.

Works out at 2 sub levels per year for KS2 to KS3.

titchy · 18/07/2011 13:10

Sorry I meant sub levels per year! I think this is out of date now though. Am sure I've read that at end KS3 level 5 is what is expected, not 6b any more.

titchy · 18/07/2011 13:16

Here:
Diretc Gov

say that at end KS3 children ar expected to reach Level 5....

titchy · 18/07/2011 13:16

Fortunately not in typing

LovelyDaffs · 18/07/2011 16:36

It does seem a bit low when you think that plenty of children finish KS2 with 5's.

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freerangeeggs · 18/07/2011 21:19

Lots of children finish KS3 with level 4s too. If they've achieved level 5 at KS2 then their target will be higher and a level 5 will be a inidcator that intervention is needed.

Don't put too much stock in expected levels. All children are different - I know that's a bit of a cliche but I don't think the general public realise how wide the range of ability is in schools.

cricketballs · 18/07/2011 23:13

the other thing to think about is that KS2 level 5;s are not anywhere close to what is required at KS3 for a level 5; also teacher assessments etc.

For instance in my subject there is no test and therefore rely on teacher assessments at KS2. For a child to achieve a level 5 at KS2 is skill based; at secondary it depends more on the understanding and application rather than the skills

but to answer your questions the national average is a level 4 at KS2 and a level 5 at KS3

GrimmaTheNome · 18/07/2011 23:30

If your DD is at an 'academic' school then the 'average' of level 5 at end of KS3 isn't really relevant to her. 4 for new subjects, 6s for others at this stage is about where she probably should be if she acheived level 5 SATs at KS2.

My DDs 'academic' school gives target levels for end of KS3 and these tend to be in the range 6/7, or 8 for maths/science

LovelyDaffs · 19/07/2011 09:43

That's interesting cricket balls, I did notice some differences at the beginning of term between her ks3 assessments and Ks2sats.

I'm not overly concerned or overly pushy, but I'd like to be able to have some idea of where she sits in terms of ability. She's still very keen to go to Cambridge I posted about it a few weeks ago, I know she's only year 7 but it'd be useful to see if she's on track for good gcse's.

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GrimmaTheNome · 19/07/2011 13:57

I reckon she's on track to do pretty well. Whether oxbridge grade, premature to guess.

LovelyDaffs · 19/07/2011 19:20

Premature I agree, just try telling Miss uber competitive

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TheMonster · 19/07/2011 19:22

A KS2 level 5 is very different to a KS3 level 5.

cricketballs · 19/07/2011 20:01

I'm sorry LovelyDaffs but your statement of not being overly pushy does not sit with me in the same paragraph of 'she's very keen to go to cambridge' about a year 7 child; where did she get the idea about cambridge from if not from you?

Why not let her enjoy school and learning at this age rather than thinking about uni?

LovelyDaffs · 19/07/2011 20:53

Cricket balls she got it from school/friends/am not really sure I didn't even know that she knew about Oxbridge when she first mentioned it. I did say it's a very academic school and her group of friends are competitive. Not sure if that's a good thing tbh, but I did have a thread about it a while ago.

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cricketballs · 19/07/2011 23:27

to be honest lovelydaffs I would not be comfortable if my DC were in an enviroment that was that competitive that they were thinking about oxbridge at year 7 learning should be about enjoyment and wonder not just about uni places. what does your DD really think?

circular · 20/07/2011 08:41

We have been told this SO many times now from DD1s teachers. Especially in English where they are trying to convince us it is 'fine' to be a level 5a/6c at the end of Yr9.

Yet on the other hand, we hear the 2 full levels per key stage bit.

I have giiven up trying to understand it (for now*) and so glad there are no more levels from Yr10.

*Also have DD2 in yr3, so may go round the same circles again when she hits KS3.

LovelyDaffs · 20/07/2011 09:15

I largely agree with you Cricketball, but I'm keeping an eye of it and I'm satisfied at the moment that she's not being overly pressurised. Our attitude has always been the age old 'just work to the best of your ability'. I don't have a degree and had a very good career and DH's degree is arts based and from an old Poly. If we steer our dcs in any way it's more towards creativity than academia, but if she could go to Oxbridge and still wants to in a few years then obviously we'll support her.

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TheMonster · 20/07/2011 20:20

I'm an English teacher. It is fine to be a 5a/6c at the end of KS3. I only wish more children were!

circular · 21/07/2011 12:53

TheMonster · 21/07/2011 20:21

Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
The criteria used to judge GCSE English is hugely different to the criteria used for KS3 levels.

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circular · 22/07/2011 08:53

So WHY (and this is something a teacher - not from DDs school - told me) are KS3 levels used to decide which papers they sit? Generally, below a level 6 would mean Foundation tier.

TheMonster · 22/07/2011 19:22

I've never known a school want a level 6 for higher tier exclusively.
The decision about which paper a pupil sits isn't made at the end of year 9 and then set in stone.

magentadreamer · 23/07/2011 09:33

Circular, they don't ask for a level 6 for higher paper at my DD's school and of the two other local schools I know about they don't either. Have you had any luck in finding a tutor for your DD?

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