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Ks3 levels - I understood what are the expected levels?

(30 Posts)
LovelyDaffs Sun 17-Jul-11 20:37:02

I got KS2 levels, so know how well my primary school dcs are doing and whilst I can obviously count up I'm not clear what the average levels are. Dd1's levels range from 4a on new subjects to 6b on others. She's at an academic school, but Im not clear on where she 'should' be at this stage (year7). Is there a table somewhere?

theredhen Mon 18-Jul-11 11:30:45

Students are supposed to gain 2 levels per key stage, I believe. So a level 4 at ks2, should mean a level 6 at ks3.

So basically if she's made a third of a way through 2 levels, she should be acheiving as she should, if that makes sense?

titchy Mon 18-Jul-11 12:04:04

I thought it used to be as redhen says, but I think the two levels a year thing might now only apply to KS 1 and 2. I seem to recall seeing somewhere that nowadays at end KS3 children should be a Level 5/6, rather than specifically a 6b which they would if they've moved two sub levels a year.

So I'm confused too! Level 5 for end KS3 seems very low, considering some are achieving this at the end of KS2! Or is this another sign of general 'dumbing down' of standards?

I wouldn't mind knowing the definitive version either (dd with same results as yours daffs!).

theredhen Mon 18-Jul-11 12:36:59

titchy - it's two levels per key stage, not per year.

Works out at 2 sub levels per year for KS2 to KS3.

titchy Mon 18-Jul-11 13:10:19

Sorry I meant sub levels per year! I think this is out of date now though. Am sure I've read that at end KS3 level 5 is what is expected, not 6b any more.

titchy Mon 18-Jul-11 13:16:23

Here:
Diretc Gov

say that at end KS3 children ar expected to reach Level 5....

titchy Mon 18-Jul-11 13:16:50

Fortunately not in typing blush

LovelyDaffs Mon 18-Jul-11 16:36:49

It does seem a bit low when you think that plenty of children finish KS2 with 5's.

freerangeeggs Mon 18-Jul-11 21:19:32

Lots of children finish KS3 with level 4s too. If they've achieved level 5 at KS2 then their target will be higher and a level 5 will be a inidcator that intervention is needed.

Don't put too much stock in expected levels. All children are different - I know that's a bit of a cliche but I don't think the general public realise how wide the range of ability is in schools.

cricketballs Mon 18-Jul-11 23:13:57

the other thing to think about is that KS2 level 5;s are not anywhere close to what is required at KS3 for a level 5; also teacher assessments etc.

For instance in my subject there is no test and therefore rely on teacher assessments at KS2. For a child to achieve a level 5 at KS2 is skill based; at secondary it depends more on the understanding and application rather than the skills

but to answer your questions the national average is a level 4 at KS2 and a level 5 at KS3

GrimmaTheNome Mon 18-Jul-11 23:30:19

If your DD is at an 'academic' school then the 'average' of level 5 at end of KS3 isn't really relevant to her. 4 for new subjects, 6s for others at this stage is about where she probably should be if she acheived level 5 SATs at KS2.

My DDs 'academic' school gives target levels for end of KS3 and these tend to be in the range 6/7, or 8 for maths/science

LovelyDaffs Tue 19-Jul-11 09:43:00

That's interesting cricket balls, I did notice some differences at the beginning of term between her ks3 assessments and Ks2sats.

I'm not overly concerned or overly pushy, but I'd like to be able to have some idea of where she sits in terms of ability. She's still very keen to go to Cambridge I posted about it a few weeks ago, I know she's only year 7 but it'd be useful to see if she's on track for good gcse's.

GrimmaTheNome Tue 19-Jul-11 13:57:41

I reckon she's on track to do pretty well. smile Whether oxbridge grade, premature to guess.

LovelyDaffs Tue 19-Jul-11 19:20:32

Premature I agree, just try telling Miss uber competitive grin

TheMonster Tue 19-Jul-11 19:22:42

A KS2 level 5 is very different to a KS3 level 5.

cricketballs Tue 19-Jul-11 20:01:22

I'm sorry LovelyDaffs but your statement of not being overly pushy does not sit with me in the same paragraph of 'she's very keen to go to cambridge' about a year 7 child; where did she get the idea about cambridge from if not from you?

Why not let her enjoy school and learning at this age rather than thinking about uni?

LovelyDaffs Tue 19-Jul-11 20:53:55

Cricket balls she got it from school/friends/am not really sure I didn't even know that she knew about Oxbridge when she first mentioned it. I did say it's a very academic school and her group of friends are competitive. Not sure if that's a good thing tbh, but I did have a thread about it a while ago.

cricketballs Tue 19-Jul-11 23:27:14

to be honest lovelydaffs I would not be comfortable if my DC were in an enviroment that was that competitive that they were thinking about oxbridge at year 7 learning should be about enjoyment and wonder not just about uni places. what does your DD really think?

circular Wed 20-Jul-11 08:41:43

<<< A KS2 level 5 is very different to a KS3 level 5. >>>

We have been told this SO many times now from DD1s teachers. Especially in English where they are trying to convince us it is 'fine' to be a level 5a/6c at the end of Yr9.

Yet on the other hand, we hear the 2 full levels per key stage bit.

I have giiven up trying to understand it (for now*) and so glad there are no more levels from Yr10.

*Also have DD2 in yr3, so may go round the same circles again when she hits KS3.

LovelyDaffs Wed 20-Jul-11 09:15:49

I largely agree with you Cricketball, but I'm keeping an eye of it and I'm satisfied at the moment that she's not being overly pressurised. Our attitude has always been the age old 'just work to the best of your ability'. I don't have a degree and had a very good career and DH's degree is arts based and from an old Poly. If we steer our dcs in any way it's more towards creativity than academia, but if she could go to Oxbridge and still wants to in a few years then obviously we'll support her.

TheMonster Wed 20-Jul-11 20:20:56

I'm an English teacher. It is fine to be a 5a/6c at the end of KS3. I only wish more children were!

circular Thu 21-Jul-11 12:53:20

<<< I'm an English teacher. It is fine to be a 5a/6c at the end of KS3. I only wish more children were! >>>

Even when they had all 5's at KS2 ?
And all other subjects they are taking for GCSE are 7c minimum ?
And, most importantly, they need a minimum B for Eng Lang GCSE ?

TheMonster Thu 21-Jul-11 20:21:44

Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
The criteria used to judge GCSE English is hugely different to the criteria used for KS3 levels.

circular Fri 22-Jul-11 08:53:34

<<< The criteria used to judge GCSE English is hugely different to the criteria used for KS3 levels. >>>

So WHY (and this is something a teacher - not from DDs school - told me) are KS3 levels used to decide which papers they sit? Generally, below a level 6 would mean Foundation tier.

TheMonster Fri 22-Jul-11 19:22:09

I've never known a school want a level 6 for higher tier exclusively.
The decision about which paper a pupil sits isn't made at the end of year 9 and then set in stone.

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