If you voted no in the independence referendum...

[HirplesWithHaggis]

...is Brexit changing your mind?

I've seen a number of people on social media (including MN) saying that they voted No in 2014 but would say Yes, or are starting to come round to the idea, in a second indyref because of Brexit. Sometimes it's because of the loss of freedom of movement, sometimes it's because Scotland's Remain vote has been completely ignored (see also Irish border issue), sometimes just the way our MPs are treated in Westminster.

Often it's reluctant, which I can fully understand. Have you changed your mind, are you swithering? Might you be persuaded?

For probably unnecessary disclosure, I voted Yes, and will do again. I am not a member of any political party/group. I'm just curious.

[prettybird]

Can't comment personally (as I voted Yes ) but one of my friends voted No, against my advice, because she was concerned that an independent Scotland would be kicked out the EU. I tried to persuade her that the greater risk to Scotland's membership of the EU was its continued membership of the UK - as the EU Referendum was already a possibility, even back in 2014.

She promised me that if that came to pass, and Scotland was dragged out of the EU against her will, she would campaign for Scottish Independence.

She has stood by her promise - and tells me that her dh and his family are doing the same (they also voted No).

She used to be a member of the Labour Party - but was already being turned of by Momentum and the Corbyn acolytes. Left the party in 2016.

[MoreProseccoNow]

I voted no, and would still vote no. Just seeing what a shitstorm Brexit has been, it's never as simple as "just leave". I think what we've seen with Brexit would happen here: divisiveness, economic uncertainty & disadvantage.

[Y0uCann0tBeSer10us]

Voted no in 2014 and I’m an even more entrenched No now, despite (or maybe because) of the Brexit shambles. I’m just sick of all the polarised politics and division, and Independence for me would just be Brexit on steroids given the much deeper connections. It’s not a solution for me, I think it would amplify divisions rather than solve anything. I want an end to it all (referenda, national identity politics, big constitutional questions) so that we can all move on and start healing divisions.

[HirplesWithHaggis]

Thanks for responses. If an independent Scotland could easily remain/return to the EU, with minimal disruption, would that change your mind?

[Y0uCann0tBeSer10us]

@HirplesWithHaggis, no that wouldn’t have any bearing on my thought processes (although I’m very far from convinced that an independent Scotland could just slide back into the EU, and certainly not with the benefits that the U.K. has/had.).

Even assuming we were in the EU, this does not in any way diminish the likely Unionist/Nationalist divisions in Scotland which would be extremely raw (Unionists are not just going to shrug their shoulders and go ‘Ok then’ in the event of a leave vote). Then there’s the years of negotiations with rUK about all manner of issues that are likely very complex, much more so than Brexit given that we’re talking about breaking up a country rather than leaving a political union. Let’s not forget that they would be in the much stronger position. In fact, being in the EU if the U.K. was not would make these negotiations even more difficult as there would then be border issues etc.

That’s without even touching on any personal feeling of loss if I were to be stripped of my British identity (even if the current government isn’t exactly covering itself in glory, I still have family and ties all across the U.K.).

[prettybird]

FWIW, I don't think that there should be another Indyref until the SNP and Greens are confident that Yes would win by over 60%.

[Y0uCann0tBeSer10us]

@Prettybird that’s something we agree on. Brexit should never have been allowed without a supermajority in favour, so you could very confident that that was the majority view.

[zsazsajuju]

The no voters are heavily weighted towards the elderly though. The hostility to no will diminish as time goes on.

[panelledreverie]

I’m not so sure about the future youth votes, the economic case for independent nation states will only get weaker as time goes on.

I don’t think we will have a deal in place by the time of another Indy ref that Scotland can stay in the EU so it’ll be another vote for conjecture, you can’t agree a plan prior to a vote to leave and a subsequent negotiation.

Brexit has made me even more of a no voter - Brexit and Indy ref are both narrow nationalist movements.

[forestafantastica]

Voted "no". Honestly, the cluster fuck that is Brexit has only made me more convinced that was the right vote. The thought of another referendum with all the division and toxicity makes me feel physically sick and I feel even worse at the thought of years of negotiation on separation from Westminster, probably followed up with decades of economic problems.

I suspect it might happen but I wish it wouldn't.

[HirplesWithHaggis]

Thanks again, your responses really are appreciated. Food for thought.

[WickedGoodDoge]

I voted no and would still vote no but do think there should be another independence referendum if we come out of the EU. I’ll be voting SNP for the first time in my life in the Euro elections as well.

[LizzieMacQueen]

No and still no. That's also the view of many others I know.

[Galvantula]

Nope I'd still vote no.

Brexit is fucking awful, but i saw no direct benefit to Scotland through independence and nothing has changed there. It'd also be an extra mess to piss money away on and unravel.

[Amortentia]

Without giving too much away, I have recently interviewed lots of people in a particular field that could be devastated in Scotland by Brexit. I frequent come across ardent no voters who have now changed their mind about independence, even though I strongly believe Scotland should and can make its own decisions I find it quite startling.

I think there is more worry about what will happen if we don’t get independence and are out of the EU. England is the largest, most populous part of the U.K. and decisions made will be for England’s needs and benefit. The particular industry I’m looking at is very different in Scotland and UK wide policies or frameworks are making many currently rich, Tory supporters worry. If they are concerned then the Union is at risk.

[Elllicam]

I voted yes but would now seriously consider voting no, I think there is enough upheaval and we might be better sticking together until things have settled.

[rareappearance]

I voted no and am now even more firmly a no

Brexit is a mess and I can't even begin to think how awful the break up of the UK would be. It would be 100 times worse

And I'm sick to the back teeth of all the traitor, wastemonster, yoon shite that I come across on social media

[panelledreverie]

I don’t see that we can make a decision about whether Scotland is better off in the EU even if RUK pulls out until the dust has settled - we can emotionally say we want to stay in the EU but it won’t be the same EU without Britain.

Scotland could perhaps vote early for independence and the EU could fall further apart before Scotland can even join, and independence terms could push us far away from being able to meet economic criteria for EU entry.

Scotland can’t shore up the EU by entry, so we’d be better off waiting for the dust to settle before we decided on our next step.

I’m really hoping we get a second referendum on Brexit and then no more of them!

[Redglitter]

Voted no last time & if they have the cheek to have another I'll vote no then too. I'll never vote SNP in any local elections either

[emotionalaffair]

I voted no and the more I see of brexit the more I think that Scotland dodged a bullet. It would be a definite no from me again.

Brexit is a disaster for the nation and Scexit would be orders of magnitude worse.

I'm still living in hope that brexit won't happen.

[Windyone]

No and still no

[NeverSayFreelance]

I voted no, and I was 19 at the time (so not elderly!). Part of me still says no, mostly because Brexit has proved what an absolute shambles trying to change things is. I voted no because the government didn't seem to have any idea what was going to happen if we went independent - and that's exactly what's happened with Brexit too. They didn't have a plan in place and now three years on, it's still a disaster. I don't want that for Scotland.

That said, I would very much like to be independent. I don't particularly want to be ruled by Westminster, and I want to stay in the EU - I just don't want leaving the UK to be another huge mess that plunges us into even more chaos.

[NeverSayFreelance]

That said I'm still very much a supporter of the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon - I just wish their independence plan wasn't such a mess.

[HirplesWithHaggis]

Amortentia that's interesting. Most of the individuals I've seen saying they're at least swithering have cited more "social" reasons (like loss of freedom of movement, lack of respect as an "equal" partner nation) but of course self-interest is an important motivator too.

Also interesting that most responses have been definite no, Brexit makes it less likely you'd change your mind. Is there anything that would make you rethink?

(I don't think there's an argument that would make me change mine, tbh.)

[PCohle]

I voted no. Initially I was tempted to change my vote as I was so keen to remain part of the EU and thought that independence would facilitate that. However looking at how Brexit has gone I have no faith whatsoever politicians would make a better job of disentangling Scotland from the UK.