Preparing to apply for English universities

[greeeenpeas]

Hello! I live in East Ren, and my kids will be going to a good local high school in the area. Both my husband & myself are relatively new to Glasgow/East Ren. I got the impression that most pupils from the local high school go to Scottish unis. It does make financial sense, but I would like for my kids to have choices if possible. I am not familiar with the education system here- but is applying for English unis more difficult for state-school educated kids in Scotland? Thanks!

[celtiethree]

A lot will depend on the universities that they may want to attend. Look at the entry requirements for students taking Scottish exams. Quite possibly they may want Advanced Highers so your DC will need to do well in S5 in the subjects that they take into AH in S6. But a lot of Scottish students do go to English Universities so it’s just a matter of planning correctly.

[howabout]

DH is English and English educated so we have had this discussion. In some ways Scottish DC are better placed as they have actual Higher results to apply with rather than predicted A levels. As celtie says you would need to research individual courses at specific Unis but even Oxford and Cambridge accept Scottish students.

Worth bearing in mind that Scottish Uni courses are 4 years rather than 3 and Higher / first year Uni courses are structured to reflect this. Therefore if DC is interested in studying an A level core subject at an English Uni then Advanced Higher would be desirable / required to cope with the 3 year structure.

[prettybird]

Don't think so - but perhaps it's even more important to do well in the Highers as they will have results for them by the time they apply, rather than purely predicted results (ds got caught out by that with Edinburgh: even though he was/is doing AHs, he was told he didn't meet their requirements in his Higher results, even though his S6 predicted results - including a relevant subject he is crashing and will do well in - would mean that he more than exceeds them )

Advanced Highers are arguably worth more than A Levels (an A is worth an Astar A level and a B at AH is the same as an A at A Level in UCAS Tariff points).

Ds' school (state school in Glasgow) has pupils going to English Unis most years (I know that one of last year's joint Duxes is in her 1st year doing PPE at Oxford; others have gone off to ICL and Cambridge, off the top of my head).

The majority do, as you say, go to Scottish Unis (ds is off to Aberdeen, having been offered an Unconditional for International Relations).

At the UCAS talk we had early in the school year, they included a discussion of the earlier timescales required for Oxbridge applications (which included the support the pastoral care teachers would give).

[Glendee]

My DD attends our local comprehensive. About 2 or 3 pupils every year from her school tend to go down to English universities.
We didn’t want my DD to be limited either and she applied for a place at a Russell group university in England (amongst Scottish universities) and was given an unconditional offer.
3 out of 4 applications for the Scottish universities were conditional offers. She gained five highers at A grade in one sitting last year and did an additional Scottish studies award (UCAS points equivalent to grade C at higher).
We were contacted by the university in England once the offer was made and there are a few scholarships available for her if the institution was her first choice.

[celtiethree]

Arguably it may actually be easier to get into an English Uni as places are not limited by a cap as they are for Scottish students trying to get into Scottish Unis! Though I have no statistics to back this up .

[user1487194234]

There doesn't seem to be an issue with them going on to English Unis including Oxbridge etc if the students at my DC school are anything to go by
And you have taken a good first step by going to ER
It is a fact that there is not the same tradition of Scottish kids moving away from home in general and the fees position has exacerbated that re Eng unis

[greeeenpeas]

Thank you so much for your comments and advice! Much appreciated. My kids are still in primary school (not for too long though!), but it is very interesting & encouraging to hear about your experiences & thoughts.
Glendee, congrats on your DD getting an unconditional offer! Amazing. Not looking forward to all the future exams...scary!! Thanks again xxx

[Glendee]

Thanks greeeenpeas. I think that’s it’s good to have DC eye on what comes next after school and something to working towards. So even though in primary it’s never too early to think about the future.
My DD has decided to firm a conditional offer at a Scottish university though and keep the unconditional as her insurance.
Not a bad thing in our opinion, as I think having an unconditional offer students can take their foot off the pedal and get out of the habit of working towards good exams results. Depending on the course we found first year at a Scottish university can be a repeat mostly of what is covered in advanced higher; so nice way to ease into university life, but another year not really having to try and now two years out of habit. My 3rd year at university was a bit of a shock after coasting for two years.
I do think the cap on Scottish students at our universities can have quite a restriction on Scottish applicants and I agree that there can be more chance of getting into an English University.
We try to say to encourage our children by telling them that getting a good set of S5 highers of course isn’t the be all and end all, but it does give them more choices.

[celtiethree]

Glendee makes a great point re keeping an eye in what comes next after school, as decisions need to made often as early as S3 re subject choice. It's also important to understand the minimum requirements for each university, pretty made this point re her DC and Edinburgh. Your DC could end 6th year with fantastic H and AH results but if they didn't meet the minimum requirements at the end of S5 then there is no point your DC including that university as one of their choices on their UCAS form.

I have one that applied for this year and one that is currently in S4 and we know where they will apply and have a plan to help them achieve their goal, with back-up plan!!. What I have learnt:

• pay close attention to minimum requirements, some make it clearer that others. For a good example look at Glasgow uni
  
• personal statement is really important (for some courses more than others) but do get your DC to spend time on it
  
• if your DC have an idea of what they want to study before they make their choices it solves many problems :). If not then look at target unis to get an idea of what a good (or mandatory) selection would be. Be very careful not to choose two subjects from the 'general list' for higher in S5, i.e. pe and art, as many unis only allow one from this list
  
• music is an academic subject so is a v good choice and a v good chance of your DC getting an A if you have already invested in lessons.
  
• a creative DC will (in my experience) need more help in getting to where they want to than a DC wanting to do a more traditional degree. Preparing a portfolio takes lot of time!! You need to have a back up in place i.e applying for foundation years at the same time they are applying via UCAS - art school is vvvvvv competitive.
  
• Applications for conservatoires is via UCAS Conservatoires so you can apply for conservatories and universities via UCAS at the same time - I wish they has similar for art schools :(
  
• The Scottish system is brilliantly flexible - if your DC don't get the qualifications they need at school, the college HNC/HND route paves the way into 2/3rd years at some excellent universities
  
• Degree apprenticeships now exist, there are some excellent ones in Scotland allowing your DC to work and study for an honours degree at the same time. Personally I think these will be increasingly competitive to get into as more people become aware of what they offer
  

Can't believe that I will have to revisit all this again with DC3 as they will only be starting high school after the summer!

[prettybird]

Just to add to what Celtie said: don't just look at the minimum requirements - also look at the "usual offer" per subject.

Ds met (and exceeded, but not by much) the minimum requirements for Edinburgh and will exceed by a long way the "usual offer" once you add in the AHs and extra Higher (which ironically is the only one that is relevant to although not compulsory the subject ) (And will have got an excellent reference and predictions from the school).

The positive is that they were very late in responding, so ds, who already had two Unconditionals (from Aberdeen and Strathclyde) and was expecting, if he got an offer from Edinburgh, it to be a Conditional, kept working hard at school. So by the time he got the rejection (and went to the Offer Holders Day at Aberdeen which made him really happy about choosing there over Strathclyde), he'd already done most of the work for the year and didn't see the point of wasting the effort. He therefore never suffered from the dreaded disease "Unconditionalitis"

....Although he has taken his foot off the gas for his AH Physics as it's the day before his (crashed) Modern Studies Higher (the former no longer relevant for his degree and the latter the subject he is passionate about and which is relevant to his degree)

(For context, ds changed his mind about what he wanted to do over last summer: from Maths/Physics/Astrophysics, with last year's Highers and this year's AHs structured around that, to International Relations Fortunately he'd already starting crashing Modern Studies Higher )

[prettybird]

Oh - and I agree about the personal statement, especially for some of the Arts subjects (like Politics and International Relations). That's what will have got ds his 2 Unconditionals.

His pastoral care teacher says it was a really good example of the progress made between the 1st draft and the finished article. I helped him a bit (in fact, she wouldn't look at it until a parent had checked it) but it was still very much his own words and passion although they're discouraged from using that word that shone through, with a well-articulated description as to why he wanted to study the subject and how his achievements to date demonstrate that he is a well-rounded individual who will cope with the transition to Uni. (I didn't agree with everything he included: I felt he wasted some of his word count on his Bronze Duke of Edinburgh, but he insisted it demonstrated his ability to problem solve and work without teacher guidance - and it was his personal statement after all!)

You've got all this to look forward to Greeeenpeas

[greeeenpeas]

Hello, I didn't check this page for a while and I am glad I did!! Thank you Glendee, Prettybird and celtiethree, your advice is extremely helpful!!
My DC1 says she wants to become an architect or IT at the moment - I am sure she will change her mind next week though :D celtiethree, interesting to hear the art school being very competitive! DC1 loves art- hence the interest in architecture. Also good to hear music counts as an academic subject - she has been playing an instrument and loves it. Also interesting to hear that the personal statement plays a big part. It is good in a way, it gives kids a chance to think about their future beyond uni. Oh it is so scary lol. Thank you so much x

[OwlMother]

Adding briefly to what others have said. Ds1 finishes school this year and applied for architecture at a mix of Scottish and English unis. Offers from all and 4/5 were unconditional. Although his higher results from s5 were good I think what was more key were his personal statement and portfolio. He had worked for several weeks in the summer in an architects firm and was able to draw heavily from this for his personal statement. He also adjusted the portfolio for different Unis in a similar way to the way you'd tweak a cv for a job application.

Post offers what has been interesting has been the approach of the unis. The English ones have been much more proactive in "selling themselves" - offer holder days, freebies posted out, follow up literature etc. I presume this is because of the Scottish cap on numbers, they know they can/will fill the courses to get the funding so not the same push?

Re music as subject- if you have a musically inclined child it is a great option, ds has effectively treated it as a free period subject for the last 2 years, very little to cover and if they already learn the instruments needed, gives a much needed breathing space in higher year. Instrumental instructor admits it is frustrating that there is no real benefit in higher or advanced higher playing to your actual level. Ds is currently brushing up his grade 6 pieces for his practical this week despite passing grade 8 last year.

[greeeenpeas]

Thank you so much OwlMother, greatly appreciated!! Sounds like you have a very talented and determined son. Congratulations to him for getting such great results. It is very good to know that in your DS's case his summer job experience played an important role. Also interesting re: English unis "selling themselves" - assumed they would have overwhelming number of applicants for limited space! Very informative x

[greeeenpeas]

OwlMother, if you don't mind me asking, did your DS take any additional courses outside his school for the portfolio making? (GSA summer course etc) x

[OwlMother]

No, staggeringly DS did his portfolio largely alone. He hasn't done art at all but has done product design all the way to AH. Some of his portfolio is drawn from his product design work but most of it he put together himself. He did a lot of research online, looking at portfolio examples. And school had copies from candidates from previous years. A mix of sketches, photoshop, rendered drawings (!?) I think. I say staggeringly because this was an unusually proactive thing for him to do! I think this interest must have shown through.

[greeeenpeas]

Thanks for your reply OwlMother, what a remarkable child you have! And it sounds like he enjoyed doing it too. So good to hear about a young person with such passion x