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Change Notre Dame High School from girls only

(281 Posts)
Glasgowlassie Wed 21-Feb-18 11:31:51

I have 2 children, currently at Notre Dame Primary in Glasgow. I have only just discovered, due to a recent campaign that my son and daughter will not be able to go to the same High School.

Girls are enrolled into Notre Dame High School, an all girls high school, this is state funded and a total anomaly, the only one of its kind in Scotland. My daughter must go there unless I can get her into another local school via a placing request, becoming increasingly difficult in the West End.

My son has to go to the linked school 3 miles away, St Thomas Aquinas, if I can't get him into another school which is closer.

Over 75% of the girls in this girls only school come from a distance via placing request. So this has an impact on the local community and the environment.

There is a campaign to change this which is how I became aware that my children would not even be allowed to go to St Thomas Aquinas without a placing request for my daughter.

In 2018 there is no place for an all girls school as it is discriminatory. Schools should serve their local area first.

Campaign is here for anyone that is interested and wants to help change it. Particularly people from Glasgow.

ShowMeTheElf Wed 21-Feb-18 11:38:54

I'm not local to you but last year I moved my daughter into a girls only school from a co-ed, mid-year. If there hadn't been a girls only school available I really don't know what I could have done to keep her in education IMO there is definitely a place for single sex schools as an option..

MyDcAreMarvel Wed 21-Feb-18 11:42:01

Three miles away is no distance at all. All girl schools have many benefits. Why should the girls miss out because your ds doesn't want to travel.
Your dc don't need to be in the same school, it's not like primary where you have to take them and can't be in two places at once.

Glasgowlassie Wed 21-Feb-18 13:11:43

Showme I have no issue with single sex education if parents are willing to pay for it. But funded by the state - NO. Particularly where there is no provision like this for boys.

MyDC how exactly would girls be missing out? By admitting boys it would be levelling out the playing field. It is currently boys that are missing out, they have less choice. Where is the equality?
Why do you think it's OK for to boys to be discriminated against in this way?

What are the benefits that you speak of? If you are talking about alledged better results for the girls, there have been studies that disprove this. Not to mention the fact that other local co-ed schools get similar and in some cases better results than those at NDHS.

Also, distance isn't the issue, its the fact that my children like many other siblings will be split and prevented from going to the same school. Friendship groups will be broken when boys and girls in the same class are forced into different schools. Children being split like this also has an impact on the school and the local community.

Every other school operates to catchment requirements, NDHS should be the same, accepting all local children first.

ShowMeTheElf Wed 21-Feb-18 13:33:47

We'll have to agree to disagree then OP. I think that single sex schools, whether state or private, should be available for those that want them or for whom they are better suited.

SunshineAfterRain Wed 21-Feb-18 13:38:31

I don't have a strong view either way. I see both side of the coin before I start.
I graduated NDHS just less than 10 years ago. It is a great school. It has been discussed many time about accepting boys during my time there.
It would take 6 years to merge in boys and the school would need to be ungraded to add in male toilets as there are only 2 blocks as it it.
I think I might seem to be more of a finance thing than tradition in my opinion tbh.
JP and St Thomas Aquinas like you stated are available but not as local to me I guess as NDHS.
What impact do you think it has on the community? (As I have never really though about it)
I never really noticed an impact on the community (different to any other area with a high school)
My Catholic primary all the girls went there and the boys to JP. That always seemed normal to us.
I keep going back to the fact that if an all boys school was to be proposed currently it would be met with shock at the discrimination.
And I suppose NDHS somewhat kills equality.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Wed 21-Feb-18 13:43:32

Surely the fact that 75% of the girls there travel via a placing request shows there is a huge demand for a single sex girls school?

It's not like there is no co-ed provision available - there is

I think, given your arguments, that it should stay the way it is and I might want to send DD there

Glasgowlassie Wed 21-Feb-18 13:58:57

Showme there is no alternative to NDHS for boys. Had there been it would have been forced to close 20 years ago. You may be OK with state funded gender discrimination but I'm not. Girls have to deal with boys out in the real world, segregation isn't going to help them with that.

Sunshine I agree NDHD has a great history, that won't change but it must evolve to survive. It is 200 under capacity currently and less than 27% of the girls going there are local. That clearly shows that it is not even meeting the needs of local girls whilst discriminating against boys.

There is a danger that under capacity schools may be deemed to be surplus to requirements. It is on a site in heart of the west end, imagine the potential return were Glasgow City Council to sell it for housing. They have done it before in the West end several times, including very recently. They have a very good argument to close it by saying that it isn't needed by the local community, with over 70 percent of girls coming from outside the area, some of them from a good distance away.

The practicalities of transforming the buildings can always be overcome but what everyone needs to remember is that the school needs to survive. Admitting boys would allow that, schools evolve NDHS needs to also.

The community does suffer when do few of the local children go there, they have no connection or ties to the area. There is also the environmental issue, huge numbers of these girls are driven in, blocking roads and side streets around the school and making it very difficult for pedestrians. Local children would be far more likely to walk.

ShowMeTheElf Wed 21-Feb-18 14:03:46

Perhaps if it wasn't RC there would be bigger take up? Certainly single sex schools do seem popular in most places.
It seems to me that there are several co-ed RC schools within 5 miles of you and one girls only one, but lots of non-denom schools. Hyndland Secondary is less than 10 mins walk from ND. You can't complain that there is no appropriate school provision when there clearly is: if you want your son and daughter to attend the same school then apply to a school which can accommodate them both.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Wed 21-Feb-18 14:22:07

Perhaps if it wasn't RC there would be bigger take up?

Quite. Much more justification for single sex education, than religious schools IMO.

SunshineAfterRain Wed 21-Feb-18 14:58:47

It's 200 undershock
That's is shocking. There are people crying out for school places too what a waste!
Then I was there we were full and a waiting list. That's alone should be a reason to look into merging boys.

I had never thought about the aspect of travel to the school. Really good point!

Glasgowlassie Wed 21-Feb-18 15:03:53

Showme The percentage of Catholic pupils in this school is very small, changing the denomination won't increase local take up.

There are no remaining single sex schools in Glasgow other than this one, not even Private ones. When parents can't even pay to educate their sons in a single sex environment why is a state funded discriminatory school OK?

I CAN say that there is no appropriate co-ed provision because as I've explained in several posts, alternative provision requires a placing request and these schools are moving towards capacity. Hyndland in particular which you have mentioned is over capacity. This will only get worse.

Itsall Why do you think it's OK for GCC to discriminate on the basis of sex?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Wed 21-Feb-18 15:37:28

Why do you think it's OK for GCC to discriminate on the basis of sex?

You really need to visit the feminism boards for a full answer to that, but to summarise and oversimplify boy tend to be more confident and push themselves forward more whereas girls are less confident and less likely to put themselves forward.

Boys need single sex schools less for those reasons

MoreProsecco Wed 21-Feb-18 15:57:54

In this day & age, separate religious or gender schools is ridiculous. Parents who want this should pay for it privately.

Glasgowlassie Wed 21-Feb-18 17:44:31

Itsall the evidence shows that it's actually boys who are lagging behind in attainment in Glasgow not girls. So that argument doesn't hold.

And if being a feminist means allowing boys to be discriminated against and giving them less choices then I'm glad I'm not one.

More there are no single sex private schools left in Glasgow, many of them changed over 15 years ago. So even in the private sector it has been realised that it is discriminatory and limiting. Totally agree and support your comments, there is no place for religion or gender discrimination in state funded schools.

k2p2k2tog Wed 21-Feb-18 17:49:50

I think Craigholme is still girls only, isn't it?

Anyway, I agree. I don't think the state should be funding single sex schools. I also don't think the state should be funding schools run along a particular religious ethos, like Catholic schools either. But that's a whole different kettle of fish.

Glasgowlassie Wed 21-Feb-18 18:02:44

*k2p I didn't realise Craighome was still all giris, its the last one I think. I'm surprised that it hasn't changed when all the others have.
Can you support the petition in my OP and share pls if you support grin

sleepyhead Wed 21-Feb-18 18:03:43

Surely you're in catchment for a non-dom school as well?

Namebot Wed 21-Feb-18 18:05:51

A co-ed state secondary is available in your catchment. You just don’t want to use it.

sleepyhead Wed 21-Feb-18 18:07:58

Tbh, I doubt most of that 75% would travel to NDH if it wasn't single sex.

Making it coed may actually just lead to an even smaller roll and eventually closure unless other RC secondaries in the area are currently oversubscribed.

Namebot Wed 21-Feb-18 18:08:29

I mean I don’t agree with single sex schools but I don’t think gcc are going to listen to you.

Most of the private schools that have become co-ed have done so for financial reasons, not because they think it’s discriminatory.

Incidentally girls do better in attainment in single sex schools and boys do better in mixed ( supposedly).

k2p2k2tog Wed 21-Feb-18 18:11:28

No I'm afraid I won't support your petition - as Sleepyhead pointed out you ARE in the catchment for a co-ed secondary school, probably Hyndland.

I don't agree with Catholic education, single sex or co-ed. (And before anyone jumps down my throat, I don't think the state should be funding any religious schools).

Balfe Wed 21-Feb-18 18:18:34

I don't know how you can only have found out recently that ND is girls only! It's a historic Glaswegian school.

Changing it to boys only would not increase the roll by 200. Many of the girls would be removed by their parents. They are there because its an all-girls school!

ND Primary cannot feasibly be the only feeder primary. The re-juggling would have a huge knock-on effect throughout the city.

LoveProsecco Wed 21-Feb-18 19:54:28

Agree with Balfe

Glasgowlassie Wed 21-Feb-18 20:28:00

sleepyhead we are in the catchment area but have no right to a place at any of the non-dom schools without a placing request. The schools in the West end are so oversubscribed now and forecast to get worse that its unlikely that a place would be found. This goes for all the kids at Notre Dame Primary.

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