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Indy2: what should the question be?

(36 Posts)
MorrisZapp Wed 15-Mar-17 09:03:18

Lots of us felt miffed that the Indy supporters got the 'positive' campaign slogan last time. Brexit wasn't yes/no, it was leave/remain.

I'm in favour of leave/remain this time around. Then I can be a remainer again smile

But seriously, they can't have 'yes' again, can they?

cheeseandcrackers77 Wed 15-Mar-17 09:14:29

It will be yes again. NS has already said it will be up to the Scottish Government to decide the wording. She won't want to upset her supporters by changing it anything else.

trixymalixy Wed 15-Mar-17 09:17:34

The electoral commission ruled that yes/no gave too much of an advantage to the positive yes answer for the EU referendum. I'm hoping that will mean that there will be a leave/remain question, but who knows.

trixymalixy Wed 15-Mar-17 09:19:04

www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/journalist/electoral-commission-media-centre/news-releases-referendums/electoral-commission-recommends-change-to-eu-referendum-question

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us Wed 15-Mar-17 09:46:12

It should be Leave/Remain, as it's clearly unfair for one side or the other to get to associate themselves with the positive choice. I'm amazed they got away it last time, and I'm not surprised NS is trying it on again. However, surely the Electoral Commission gets the final say on the question?

MorrisZapp Wed 15-Mar-17 10:24:17

Yes I'd like to know who gets the veto on the final wording.

I think I remember Salmond trying to propose something like 'should Scotland be an independent country in its own right' or something, and having the words altered by a higher body. Even as it was, it seemed a biased question to me.

'do you want to break up a centuries old union with rUK' wouldn't get a chance would it?

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us Wed 15-Mar-17 10:28:49

Morris probably not, more's the pity.

I think Salmond tried to get away with "Do you agree that Scotland should be an independent country?", which was quite rightly deemed too biased, but I agree that the final question was far from neutral too.

Having set the precedent with the EU referendum, surely the Electoral Commission has to stick to the same kind of wording (as this issue is basically the same, just substitute 'European Union' with 'United Kingdom').

NoLotteryWinYet Wed 15-Mar-17 12:26:37

oooh I like the idea of a leave/remain vote! Or yes, No to the 300 year old union with our main trading partner

Calyx72 Wed 15-Mar-17 14:56:53

"Here is the question the people of Scotland will face in the next independence referendum: when England falls out of the boat like a block of concrete, do you want your foot tied to it?"

George Monbiot, Independent, 15.3.17

MorrisZapp Wed 15-Mar-17 14:58:13

Lol smile

cheeseandcrackers77 Wed 15-Mar-17 16:07:34

I have just checked the electoral commission's ruling on the question for the EU referendum so I think there is a chance they can't use yes/no option.

cdtaylornats Thu 16-Mar-17 21:21:26

I think it should be

"Is it time to close the failed, expensive, Labour idea that is Holyrood?"

blaeberry Thu 23-Mar-17 23:11:47

I think we need to redress the balance and it should be "Do you think we should remain part of the U.K.?" I think it would be fun to have all the yes/no people swap placards!

It should be emotionally neutral - e.g.

I want Scotland to remain in the U.K.

I want Scotland to be independent.

...and people tick against their choice.

MorrisZapp Thu 23-Mar-17 23:19:13

Surely it's leave if we're having remain? Independent is a loaded word I think.

cdtaylornats Fri 24-Mar-17 07:34:48

How about

I want Scotland to remain in the UK
I want Scotland to be alone

Nyx Fri 24-Mar-17 09:50:13

Independence is what it's about though. If you're saying it's a loaded word then you agree independence is a good thing. It is not that I want Scotland to be alone, I want her to be independent. They are not the same thing.

NoLotteryWinYet Fri 24-Mar-17 10:55:48

Nyx should the EU referendum have been an independence vote? I don't see why it shouldn't be a leave/remain vote - both unions and the UK one is much older, established and has proven currency stability.

AddToBasket Fri 24-Mar-17 10:59:05

Leave/remain is a good way forward. And it increases the distance between the previous campaign and any second referendum.

Nyx Fri 24-Mar-17 17:57:21

Nolottery, no because the countries in the EU are independent, well - most of them anyway. Isn't France an independent country for example? And leaving the EU is a choice any of those countries can make for themselves. Scotland leaving the UK (and therefore becoming an independent country, able to make her own decisions on things like the EU) is completely different.

cdtaylornats Fri 24-Mar-17 18:32:04

The trouble is the SNP want Scotland to be independent like Greece.

Nyx Fri 24-Mar-17 22:14:42

Scotland is nothing like Greece.

"So let’s do just that. Let’s accept for the purposes of the argument that Scotland does indeed have a deficit that’s considerably larger than that of Greece. Yet Greece doesn’t have Scotland’s resources. Greece isn’t a net exporter of energy. Greece doesn’t have oil, gas, a massive renewable energy potential, the hundreds of years worth of coal that Scotland has agreed to leave in the ground. Scotland is so rich in energy that we can afford to have a national conversation about fracking and whether or not we want it. We don’t need the energy from fracking ourselves. We can afford to leave it in the ground. Most countries don’t have that luxury.Energy is the motor of any economy, and Scotland possesses it in abundance.
Unlike Greece Scotland has fertile soil and no shortage of water. We have enormous fish stocks. We are more or less self sufficient in food, what we import we make up for in exports. We have a tourism industry worth £11 billion annually, a whisky industry worth almost £4 billion. We have a computer games industry, four of the top 100 universities in the world, and a highly educated English speaking population. We have advantages we just take for granted, like the fact that what passes for a national disaster in Scotland is the national football team, we are spared the earthquakes, volcanic eruptions or tsunamis that strike less fortunate countries – like Greece. Those are disasters that mean entire towns and cities have to be rebuilt. Nothing like that happens in Scotland. This is a lucky country." (Paul Kavanagh)

LassWiTheDelicateAir Sat 25-Mar-17 01:00:01

Scotland is nothing like Greece

So true - Greece has a lower budget deficit.

LassWiTheDelicateAir Sat 25-Mar-17 01:06:49

*amp.theguardian.com
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2016/aug/24/scottish-finances-worsen-fall-oil-revenues-15bn-deficit*

During the last "let's smash the UK up for no valid reason whatsoever" referendum the SNP were claiming oil was worth £34 billion, then downgraded to £7 billion. Last year the revenue was £60 million.

Nyx Sat 25-Mar-17 08:27:15

The oil industry in Scotland is being mismanaged. Look at Norway. They are not having to practically pay people to take it off them. They are taxing the oil companies so that they benefit from it. Even though the oil price is lower, Norway are still making good money from it.

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