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...and here we go again the SNP campaign for independence begins.....

(28 Posts)
OneMagnumisneverenough Mon 09-May-16 21:35:52

www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendumnews/14478720.Nicola_Sturgeon_confirms_intention_to_relaunch_SNP_s_Independence_campaign/?ref=fbshr

The comments on the FB page this was posted on are already full of vitriol, tales of vote rigging and how if they held a vote tomorrow it would be a Yes.

Seems once in a generation was talking about a generation of hamsters.

TheTroubleWithAngels Mon 09-May-16 21:53:25

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheTroubleWithAngels Mon 09-May-16 21:54:33

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OneMagnumisneverenough Mon 09-May-16 22:00:38

We had the argument about the 50% of the population thing yesterday but the article popped up on my facebook tonight with the usual shite comments attached - so I sat on my hands for a bit and then posted the article here instead smile

The gist is that they need to focus on the elderly (by bumping them off?) and disaffected labour voters. A respondee said that people who have retired abroad and probably have no intention of returning shouldn't be allowed to have their nostalgic Yes vote counted as it doesn't affect them.

prettybird Mon 09-May-16 22:30:30

My dad has said he wants to live to see independence smile. He's 79 now but his aunt lived to 101 wink

(His mum died at 89 but she had a harder life with poorer health care in South Africa).

OneMagnumisneverenough Mon 09-May-16 22:38:15

I've said before prettybird that I am not ideologically opposed to independence, I just don't think it's the right time and hate the SNP with my whole being. i know you are in the opposite camp and I am sure you have your reasons the same as I do.

So maybe if the time is right I'd be happy to support your Dad's dream - I just think he'll have to at least take after his Auntie.

DanyellasDonkey Mon 09-May-16 22:44:26

Oh I wish they'd just give it a rest. The once in a generation thing was obviously a hollow promise and they won't give up until they get what they want.

The SNP remind me of a bunch of spoiled toddlers, having a tantrum until they get what they want.

trixymalixy Tue 10-May-16 07:28:40

FFS can they just get on with running the country for once! I thought the focus was supposed to be education.

peggyundercrackers Tue 10-May-16 07:28:42

Is anyone surprised they have decided to give it another go?

trixymalixy Tue 10-May-16 09:28:52

No not surprised. It would just be nice to have politics in Scotland being about something other than independence. I think though that only the hardcore Indy supporters want another indyref asap and it might lose them support going on and on about it. Let's hope so!

flippinada Tue 10-May-16 14:29:50

Not at all surprised by this. Seems they've changed their tune pretty quickly after DFM's comments on Friday.

It's not as if there are any more important things to deal with after all hmm.

OneMagnumisneverenough Tue 10-May-16 14:34:13

It was in their manifesto that they would begin a campaign in the Summer so being generous, that's what people voted for in enough numbers. It's no different I guess from the 7 day NHS debacle which was in the Tory manifesto which they also feel justified in implementing it by any means...

<plays Devil's advocate>

BaboonBottom Tue 10-May-16 14:37:40

This doesn't surprise me.
You can't keep going until you get the result you want and claim that ones valid over the others. Given the cost involved as well. Prove you can do the job first

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Tue 10-May-16 14:39:45

Indeed. They got much more votes than last time, and there is a pro-indy majority in Hollyrood.

But

They need to remember that the people they need to reach are not the Yes voters from last time, they need to convert the No voters, and I suspect running the country competently would count for a lot more than a massive focus on Independence.

Need to make Independence an automatic default position rather than some special event that requires massive energies thrown into a single issue campaign ie instead if saying Indy, Indy, rah, rah, rah they need to be saying here is our competent budget, if we had been independent we could have done this, here is our NHS, if we has been independent we could have done this etc etc.

flippinada Tue 10-May-16 14:41:44

Fair point Magnum, the clue is in their name I guess and they don't hide it.

It would just be nice if they demonstrated some awareness and maybe even some humility. I realise that's a naive hope.

wigglybeezer Tue 10-May-16 14:41:48

Onemagnum, I'm with you. I had an SNP canvasser knock on my door and ask me if I wanted independence, I said " eventually ", he looked very grumpy at that and stomped off without engaging in debate.

For what it's worth I don't think there would be a yes vote, I don,'t know any no voters who have changed their mind and DS1 has changed from yes to no. I also found out that my staunch yes voting neighbours voted SNP first vote, Tory second vote, I was rather surprised but they were obviously not alone! Of course this is all anecdotal and therefore meaninglessgrin

trixymalixy Tue 10-May-16 15:32:36

The problem they have now is that a great proportion of the No voters just didn't believe that we would be better off if we were independent, they didn't believe their currency plans and they didn't believe them over entry to the EU. Any questions were met with an answer of "that's just scaremongering you Scotland hating/, selfish/ red/blue tory voting/ traitorous scum" delete as appropriate. No answers were forthcoming giving the impression that there were no answers and that they were lying.

People seem to vote with their gut instinct and the Yes campaign have given an impression of dishonesty and deception. So anything they say now will be treated with a huge amount of suspicion.

I really can't see how they will manage to woo No voters.

Their main chance is to prove they can run the country successfully and improve the economic position of Scotland, but with all the freebies and no tax rises and the state of the oil revenue I can't see that happening anytime soon.

OneMagnumisneverenough Tue 10-May-16 16:24:41

I really can't see how they will manage to woo No voters.

On the Yes page I was on (pass the brain bleach) they were saying to focus on the elderly, basically the view is that they are groundlessly scared and shouldn't be scuppering things for the young who want independance. So living through many years clearly doesn't furnish you with a bit of experience and intelligence and an ability to make a pragmatic decision. Especially as older folk will probably be considering their childrens and grandchildrens future as well as their own. Maybe they should just take the right to vote away when you retire and that'll sort their demographic right out - if they need more voters they'll just lower the age to 12.

Or their other plan could be to just bump them all off.

I've said on other threads, if they had stated a more honest position in that it would be tough and we'd have to pay more but it would be better then I'd have been more kindly disposed to considering things.

trixymalixy Tue 10-May-16 16:32:56

This notion that younger people are more likely to vote yes is based on a survey of 14 16-17 year olds, so not statistically significant, yet they quote it like it is gospel. Adding 16-17 year old voters in this election didn't result in an increased share of the vote for the SNP and didn't take independence parties above 50% of the vote either in the referendum or the election, so I think they are on a hiding to nothing with that one.

If they start a new campaign saying that it would be tough and we'd have to pay more that would only just confirm what we all knew, that they were trying to deceive us into voting yes.

OneMagnumisneverenough Tue 10-May-16 16:46:18

Don't shoot the messenger trixy grin

I'm just saying what they were saying. i don't think it has any truth in it either but since when has that been important? smile

Oh and by the way, they weren't trying to deceive us, we are just brainwashed by the media don't ya know? It could actually turn me of socialism completely to be honest as I don't know why I am trying to encourage help for people who aren't able to think for themselves never mind anything else.

LunaLoveg00d Tue 10-May-16 18:36:19

Excuse the language but she can fuck right off with this one.

Has she forgotten that she was elected not even a week ago to GOVERN THE COUNTRY? Not to start with this nonsense all over again. Just goes to show the insincere speech she made in her wee pink suit on Friday about representing everyone, whether they had voted for her or not, was utter BOLLOCKS.

Come on Ruth, time to show her what you're made of.

cdtaylornats Tue 10-May-16 21:31:30

Well she has set the precedent - in the event a succession vote was obtained it would just trigger a slew of rerun claims, plus Shetland and the Borders wanting to go their own way.

peggyundercrackers Tue 10-May-16 21:44:51

I see Henry MacLeish has also said labour should go for independence for some waffling reasons - doe anyone listen to him now? Did anyone listen him back then?

Y0uCann0tBeSer10us Wed 11-May-16 07:41:36

'When asked if Scotland can put an independence referendum to bed for the next five years, Ms Sturgeon said: "No, the position I put forward in the SNP manifesto got the support of almost 50% of the population."

Ok, putting aside the (possibly deliberately) misleading mistake that inflates their support, it's a leap to think that support for the SNP = support for independence. I know it's their raison d'etre, but I also know of people that are strongly opposed to independence who voted SNP for their constituency MSP because the candidate was very good and had helped them out in the past. (Incidently they've come to regret that as that vote is being used as a ringing endorsement of independence!) I can also imagine that there were a lot of people who voted Green because of opposition to fracking etc without giving independence a second thought. Likewise, there may be people who support independence who voted Tory to try to keep the SNP in check and so on.

Point is, we know nothing about the motivation behind people's votes and we can't say that they were for or against independence because that wasn't the question being asked. The only solid information we have on that question was from the referendum less than two years ago, when the majority of people said No. Personally I wish we could spend a bit of time letting those wounds heal and putting the whole thing to bed for a while, rather than have another few years of division and neglect of governmental duties.

peggyundercrackers Wed 11-May-16 16:24:34

I know it's their raison d'etre, but I also know of people that are strongly opposed to independence who voted SNP for their constituency MSP because the candidate was very good and had helped them out in the past. (Incidently they've come to regret that as that vote is being used as a ringing endorsement of independence!)

seriously anyone who voted for SNP must have known or realised they were voting for a party whos aim in life is to break Scotland away from the UK. If they didn't think that they need to give their head a good wobble.

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