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Scottish Labour

(196 Posts)
ClopySow Fri 01-Apr-16 18:43:08

I've voted snp for the last while, but would align my political views with a traditional labour government, not new Labour. I can get on board with Jeremy Corbyn, but can't get past Kezia Dugdale. Are Scottish Labour more Corbyn or milliband?

HMF1 Fri 01-Apr-16 18:47:54

I think the rank & file are more Corbyn although my first hand knowledge is a bit out of date as I resigned over Iraq & nothing I see or hear about Scottish Labour would tempt me back. I think they have a few more years left in the wilderness yet.

ClopySow Fri 01-Apr-16 19:02:31

The labour candidate was canvassing in my building earlier, i wanted to ask him, but i was on my way out and didn't have time.

I need to get past my hatred of Kezia and actually look at the politics. I'm not massively hung up on independence, but i am massively hung up on not being governed by conservatives.

harrasseddotcom Fri 01-Apr-16 19:06:23

until labour as a whole start voting against the tories and things like welfare cuts then i'll not be touching them with a barge pole. Wasn't Kezia anti Corbyn until he was elected when she welcomed him with open arms? I could be wrong about that

HMF1 Fri 01-Apr-16 19:20:32

I think you are right about their voting, in Westminster they appear to be nowhere in terms of being an effective opposition partyfor the UK. Last December my oldest son was interviewed by Radio 4 for an item on the Scottish leadership elections. He called them directionless, I don't think much has changed.

AgentProvocateur Fri 01-Apr-16 19:38:14

Scottish labour have no credibility, IMVHO. I don't think Kezia is a good leader (but she did inherit a party in disarray, so not entirely her fault), and no-one else comes to mind as a possible replacement. I voted for them in the past, but I can't see me voting for them any time soon. SNP and green for me in May.

chipsandpeas Fri 01-Apr-16 19:45:08

snp and green for me in may, i cant vote for labour in scotland while they are in such a mess, kezia is just killing time until after the election and she needs to go

the thought of her as first minister gives me the shakes - i didnt think much of her before but during the referendum she just really irritated the shit out of me
id rather vote tory than labour if it was a 2 party choice, ruth davidson impresses me as a speaker and the way she comes across but i dont agree with her politics

ClopySow Fri 01-Apr-16 20:19:11

Oh no! The only person worse than kezia is ruth.

But i'm trying really hard not to get stuck on personalities. I want to make the right decision based on whose politics most closely match mine. I know that Scottish Labour would have been considered more socialist than New labour in the past, but i'm not sure now.

I'd like to use my vote to ensure there is a decent opposition to the conservatives and maybe that means supporting labour. But, too many labour MP's in Westminster are more centrist than left wing, and i don't want to support that. I know it's two different parliaments, but if i'm going to support the labour party, i want it to be the right kind of labour party and i'm not sure if we have that in scotland either.

ClopySow Fri 01-Apr-16 20:21:24

And yes, kezia was not a corbyn fan during the leadership election.

chipsandpeas Fri 01-Apr-16 20:24:28

im not really talking about a kezia v ruth personality contest i just think ruth comes across a lot better than kezia in terms of the way she talks, composes herself
id rather not vote if it was a straight choice than either of them, my feelings on the tories are better left unsaid as a lot of sweary words would be used

HirplesWithHaggis Fri 01-Apr-16 20:34:17

There's a fair chance that if/when Kez stands down as leader after obliteration in the upcoming elections, arch-Blairite Anas Sarwar (almost certain to be elected on the list) will take her place. Is that something you'd vote for? <shudder>

SetPhasersTaeMalkie Fri 01-Apr-16 20:45:08

I totally get what you are saying. I've voted SNP since Blair but at heart am still Labour. I can't get on board with Kezia at all and tbh would struggle to vote Labour anytime soon.

So now I don't know who to vote for. A reluctant vote for SNP? Definitely not bloody Labour that's for sure.

I quite like Ruth Davidson but hate her policies. If she were Labour leader...

prettybird Fri 01-Apr-16 20:54:02

Unfortunately Anus Sarwar will almost definitely be the new leader of the Scottish branch of the Labour Party hmm. He's overcome his objections to the Scottish Parliament surprising that, as he lost his Westminster seat wink and has guaranteed himself a list seat by coming top of the Labour selections for the Glasgow region (I believe that none of the "new" Labour members, ie the Corbynistas, weren't allowed to vote in that selection process).

While I would like to see a stronger opposition to the SNP - as it will help them better hone their own arguments and policies - it sticks in my craw that it will be a career politician who has shown such contempt towards Holyrood. angry

I too can never vote for Labour again after Iraq and the many Tory-esque policies that they implemented and/or Tory policies that they left in place despite all their years in power. angryangryangry

I do however look forward to a "real" Labour type party emerging if and when Scotland does achieve its independence. I genuinely don't see the current party ever losing its "branch" status and will always be hamstrung by its association with Westminster policies.

And don't get me started on how far the LibDems have abrogated their principles hmm

HirplesWithHaggis Fri 01-Apr-16 21:21:06

Urgh, LibDems, have you followed the Carmichael/JRRT scandal this week? shock

Superjaggy Fri 01-Apr-16 21:22:30

I'll be voting SNP twice in the upcoming elections, but I'm another who wishes that there was a stronger labour opposition in the Scottish Parliament.

Kezia Dugdale is even further out of her depth than Jim Murphy was and the party has no credibility at the moment. I agree that Ruth Davidson is a much better leader and spokesperson, but I don't like Tory policies at all.

The whole of the U.K. deserves a stronger Labour Party that can stand up in both Scottish and uk parliaments, but Blair wrecked the party and it will be years before they are effective in opposition again.

OneMagnumisneverenough Fri 01-Apr-16 21:34:15

I actually quite like Kezia but she was in as leader far too early imo. But then there wasn't really much of a choice. I actually had a liking for Johann but she wasn't the right person either - she couldn't hide her absolute disgust with the SNP and whilst I don't disagree with her, she needed to manage that better. she wasn't electable. Jim was just a complete joke. Kezia's current issue apart from lack of visibility and direction is that she is trying to play Nicola at being Nicola - she'd be better off being herself, she was more likeable.

I think until people clock on that the SNP are not a socialist party, labour will remain in the wilderness. I wont vote for the Tories and I wont vote for the SNP so whilst i am possibly wasting my vote, I'll probably still vote Labour as I align with a socialist brief more than any other. I just wish they'd give me something to vote for.

peggyundercrackers Fri 01-Apr-16 21:34:26

I don't think the figure heads of any of the parties matter too much as most of them are puppets to their masters in Westminster. My allegiance lies with the party I vote for not the person on who runs the party.

i couldn't vote for SNP no matter what though - their policies are half baked and divisive for Scotland as a whole and they seem to hate people in the middle of society. Your fine if your poor or rich though.

ClopySow Fri 01-Apr-16 22:04:52

I liked the SNP because they were the most radical thing to happen to british politics in amongst all of the smooth politicians from the 90's onwards. They weren't polished and there was no aplogising for that. And they stood for something people felt really passionate about. But nicola has been polished and i don't like it. Interestingly ruth and kezia have been looking pretty polished recently too.

I know they're not a socialist party, but much of their politics, in my mind have been closer to socialist than labour have been, or at least their sentiment has. Until the corbyn bomb was dropped. Now there's a radical unpolished politician. I love him. He reminds me of the 80's. In my dreams, his aftershave is "eau de greenham common"

peggyundercrackers Fri 01-Apr-16 22:15:19

Sorry but I don't see SNP as a socialist party at all. Nationalists and controlling but not socialist.

OneMagnumisneverenough Fri 01-Apr-16 22:28:34

The Nationalists are anything that they think will get votes. They see votes in socialism so they'll lead people to believe that they have socialist policies, in fact their policies are either stolen from Labour or sometimes the Tories and given their own slant about independence. This is because they really only have one policy and that's independence at any and all costs. They have sought to and succeeded in dividing up the country and setting people against each other

ClopySow Fri 01-Apr-16 22:50:08

Policies are stolen from labour or the conservatives? That's quite an interesting statement.

Who did the Tories and Labour steal them from then? Because these policies are pretty much the policies of left and right wing parties the world over aren't they?

Build social housing/sell social housing
Free education/paid education
Free health care/privatised health care
Nationalise/privatise
Progressive taxation/regressive taxation

The labour party have left a massive gap on the left, the SNP has filled that gap.

OneMagnumisneverenough Fri 01-Apr-16 23:03:28

if you say so cloppy but maybe you would do me the honour of telling me about anything that the SNP have done to help with "fairness" and equality in Scotland since they have been in power?

peggyundercrackers Fri 01-Apr-16 23:04:59

SNP are anything but left wing... Far right maybe but they do a good job pretending they are left wing.

chipsandpeas Fri 01-Apr-16 23:37:56

i have always voted SNP in scottish elections since 1999 purely cos i believed they had Scotland in mind
but i voted labour in westminister until 2005, my MP Robin Cook died, i had voted for him....when the bi electin when he died i switched to SNP cos i didint like the labour cnadidate (the replacement was done for expense fraud)..this was a labour safe seat until the 2015 election when it switched to SNP but until then you could put a ape up for election and it would be elected but people saw thru labour, was maybe after the indy ref but they saw thru.........but going from a labour stringhold like many other in central scotland it changed at westminister and labour shit them selves and i cant see ,uch of a change when it comes to holyrood elelctions in may
plenty of labour voters are changing cos they dont represent scotland....SNP arent a guarteeded answer but they are better than labour

ClopySow Fri 01-Apr-16 23:42:33

I'm really rather hoping someone will talk to me about Scottish Labour and whether or not they're worth voting for based on what's happening with the Labour party nationally.

I'm really rather not hoping for more arguments about the SNP. There must be heaps of places you can get into that argument. I'm afraid here, with me, isn't one of those places.

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